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Post by mkkrabby on Jan 2, 2024 19:02:14 GMT
Bid: McMeatyBurger Franchise: 9 GravitySchmavity Brand Trainers: 9
Big mother wants a new pair of shoes and a method for her kids to make her money.
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2024 19:17:36 GMT
*appears from ceiling* hey bbgirl. So haven’t been talking here much, still trying to get my bearings + waiting for Daisy’s response + bad at forum mafia. Lmao All I know is my effect, which I won’t share now, and that’s gonna effect what items I bid on. I already get the vibe there’s some here that are useless to me I love this post. The energy seems town but I did fall for the same thing early last game so I'm not as trusting now I feel obligated to TR you at this point cause you're coming up with and posting all the same stuff I'm thinking, it's sort of uncanny for me
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2024 19:19:15 GMT
All of ashe's posts are great but they aren't in purple which is -1 point from me.
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Post by mkkrabby on Jan 2, 2024 19:20:39 GMT
Yeah, thats a negative, I wish I could do the colours too idk how
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2024 19:24:43 GMT
Yeah, thats a negative, I wish I could do the colours too idk how NO IDEA SORRY
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Post by mkkrabby on Jan 2, 2024 19:25:21 GMT
unvote: Luke vote: Tom
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Post by luke on Jan 2, 2024 19:28:38 GMT
I love this post. The energy seems town but I did fall for the same thing early last game so I'm not as trusting now I feel obligated to TR you at this point cause you're coming up with and posting all the same stuff I'm thinking, it's sort of uncanny for me I did say the same thing wrt your Archie townread. Maybe we're soulmates - or maybe I'm just scum deliberately predicting your thoughts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2024 19:47:42 GMT
Daisy's assumption of a 'bidding pair' looks like either a townslip or a fake townslip - that is, she either assumed 4 bidding groups of 2 because she didn't know any better, or she pretended to because she knew it wasn't the case. The only other possibility is if Daisy is scum with Archie and they only knew about their own group - which is possible and I'm not gonna be influenced by what I think the mods would do in this case. But the overall takeaway for me is Daisy's probably town. Actually Luke I think you saying Daisy townslipped doesn't quite make sense as it hasn't been confirmed that the mafia or whatever groupscum have any kind of daytalk right? So her not having that information doesn't mean a whole lot? Unless I misunderstand what you meant by it, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Unless this is a scumslip from you? That'd be pretty ironic!
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Post by mkkrabby on Jan 2, 2024 19:54:05 GMT
Better clean the floor everyone is slipping everywhere!
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Post by luke on Jan 2, 2024 20:49:22 GMT
Daisy's assumption of a 'bidding pair' looks like either a townslip or a fake townslip - that is, she either assumed 4 bidding groups of 2 because she didn't know any better, or she pretended to because she knew it wasn't the case. The only other possibility is if Daisy is scum with Archie and they only knew about their own group - which is possible and I'm not gonna be influenced by what I think the mods would do in this case. But the overall takeaway for me is Daisy's probably town. Actually Luke I think you saying Daisy townslipped doesn't quite make sense as it hasn't been confirmed that the mafia or whatever groupscum have any kind of daytalk right? So her not having that information doesn't mean a whole lot? Unless I misunderstand what you meant by it, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Unless this is a scumslip from you? That'd be pretty ironic!
My thinking assumed scum would have a chat, yeah. Doesn't have to be specifically daytalk. The only time I've seen that not be the case is with a Cult, and I'd hope there's no recruiting in this game.
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Jan 2, 2024 21:11:36 GMT
Actually you might be right, me and archie were added to a group DM on discord pre-game when we were in a masonry so I guess it makes sense
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Post by luke on Jan 2, 2024 21:12:36 GMT
Actually you might be right, me and archie were added to a group DM on discord pre-game when we were in a masonry so I guess it makes sense Same thing for me and Archie's masonry this game
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Post by Nick G on Jan 2, 2024 21:54:32 GMT
Tom- Small increments is how auctions typically work, and there are some people who may be out off by early competition for certain items.
- I’m unsurprised that people have bid this early, but surprised that there appears to be some level of competition. Unlike votes, it isn’t really triggering any meaningful discussion beyond points like this.
- Regarding the whole “did Daisy Townslip with the bidding pair comment” situation, remember that we started with a night phase in this game. Regardless of whether Mafia have a daychat, I’d be extremely surprised if they didn’t have a nightchat.
archie- While I am intrigued by Ashera’s comments, I’m not sure I interpret it in the same way. Silly flavour text post restrictions seem more likely to come from an item in my opinion. And I’m not sure why Ashera would “crumb” their role if evil? (Unless they thought they had a role that could function as either.) It sort of feels like you’re finding a way to set Ashera up for a push.
- Personally, I’m more inclined to think from Ashera’s comments that they either have a way of knowing what items do before acquiring them, or that they’re looking for items that fit a specific criteria.
- Can I ask why you Townread me? I’d guess that a significant proportion of my posts so far would be written off as mechanics / strategy talk that is typically viewed as NAI, and there haven’t been serious 1v1s or dynamic vote swings to analyse yet.
luke- I wasn’t trying to declare everything null and void (bar the matter of how Mafia would be distributed in bidding groups, unless we think the mods are running a “bastard” game). I was simply stating my contradictory point of view on a few things.
Can I ask why people seem to be Townreading Archie? I may have missed something, but right now I’m not entirely sure about them.
Vote: Archie
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Post by AirPrime on Jan 3, 2024 1:33:02 GMT
I agree, I don't recall anything I've seen that makes Archie non-suspicious.
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Post by archie on Jan 3, 2024 8:34:19 GMT
Well, I've done the dreaded reread and I have a few comments.
Firstly, my suspicions on Ashe and Daisy are are lot less. I'm a long way of TRing them, but it's often the case that I'll find a tunnel and barrel down it, and apparently this was one of them. That said, my read on Daisy will largely depend on what she says when she comes back.
Nick, I TR you because I've played a few forum games before with you, and this seems very in character for town you. Plain and simple.
I'm kind of glad that some people are suspicious of me, don't want to become that innocent I'm the obvious N1 kill. I don't think I'm the most useful role for town to keep alive tbf, but I also know for a fact I'm town, so would prefer to survive as long as I can. Now I say that, a survivor type role could be a good 3rd party in this setup. Would fit thematically, and balance-wise. Something to consider at any rate. I kind of want to know why people think I'm suspicious, always good to know, but if you don't want to reveal, as I say, I'm not insanely bothered at this point, but expect pestering if I get more votes on me. However, I think the main thing is something I've known for a while. To survive at mafia, I need to learn when to shut the hell up.
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Post by luke on Jan 3, 2024 11:21:08 GMT
I agree, I don't recall anything I've seen that makes Archie non-suspicious. Do you have any reads so far?
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Post by luke on Jan 3, 2024 11:37:45 GMT
However, I think the main thing is something I've known for a while. To survive at mafia, I need to learn when to shut the hell up. This reads like the end of a chapter of your book.
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Post by archie on Jan 3, 2024 14:20:39 GMT
Oh, it fully does. I've made edits to that btw, after your advice. I'll send an updated copy along, once I've written a fair bit more
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Post by Lucifer on Jan 3, 2024 21:46:46 GMT
Unfortunately Daisy has had to step out. Her slot will now be taken by unexplained
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Post by unexplained on Jan 3, 2024 21:50:28 GMT
Unfortunately Daisy has had to step out. Her slot will now be taken by unexplained Why did this happen? I guess we'll never know
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Post by unexplained on Jan 3, 2024 21:50:58 GMT
I will begin reading and then ask a question to each other player in this game
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Post by unexplained on Jan 3, 2024 22:40:12 GMT
Page 1
Tom hasn't read the rules +town Nick G is very familliar with the rules around items +wolves
Page 2
Nick G wants to talk about what items do and what everyone bidded for +wolves Tom very quickly shut that down +town
Page 3
Nick G votes for Luke to "get the game moving" but goes nowhere with it +wolves Nick G is stateing game facts and taking about items a lot +wolves archie is alluding to role power knowledge +wolves AirPrime is bidding and talking about their bids +wolves
Page 4
archie still talking about players roles +wolves Good number of posts that I think will be good to look back on after some flips
Page 5
archie is again, talking about roles +wolves
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Questions:
mkkrabby - Do you have any reads this game?
Tom - Others have also asked this but can you expand on your archie read? As you can see, I have given him a fair few +wolves
archie - You say that ashera and Daisy (now me) are your biggest suspicions, could you explain why and what about thier posting made you suspicious of them?
ashera - Other than Daisy (now me), is anyone else either failing or passing the vibe check?
luke - Your read on Daisy (now me) feels forced. Now it has been explained that bidding groups are entierly random, does this change your read? Daisy (now me) had also posted significantly more than just the part about bidding groups before you gave this read, does any of that also factor into your read? If not, why?
AirPrime - You say nothing you've seen makes archie non-suspicious, but has anything you seen make archie, or indeed anyone, seem suspicious?
Nick G - You mention you have experience with some of the players here, are you not trying to use that to discern their alignment?
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Vote:Nick G
Bid - Existentially Worrying FleshClone: 10
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Post by unexplained on Jan 3, 2024 22:41:11 GMT
Question for the Mods:
Will votecounts include all currently highest bids?
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Post by Nick G on Jan 3, 2024 22:45:42 GMT
Welcome, Unexplained! It is a shame that we’ve lost Daisy though.
Apologies for being quiet today - I had less spare time than I anticipated. I will organise my thoughts and get a post out tomorrow morning.
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Post by AirPrime on Jan 4, 2024 1:44:25 GMT
AirPrime is bidding and talking about their bids +wolves I don't see how that would make me suspicious. Everyone in this game wants items, and I was joining in with the general vibe of people talking about the items they bid on, like Leo's wanting a new pair of shoes.
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Post by AirPrime on Jan 4, 2024 1:48:41 GMT
AirPrime - You say nothing you've seen makes archie non-suspicious, but has anything you seen make archie, or indeed anyone, seem suspicious? Not really. I haven't done that much of an in-depth look at the message history yet, and I'm not very good at D1 reads, especially since this is my first forum game so I don't have as much experience as many of you. I'm a mathematician, I'm better at untangling logic than people. Which is possibly why I prefer BotC to straight-up Mafia, though I'm enjoying this experience.
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Post by Nick G on Jan 4, 2024 7:11:07 GMT
archie- My slight suspicion on you (and resulting vote) was primarily down to some of the reads/theories you were posting. You’d Townread me with no explanation (at the time). The strongest element was your case against Ashera. The role theory seemed a little far-fetched to me, especially with you suggesting that Ashera was deliberately hinting towards having an anti-Town role. You also talked about a potential Ashera/Daisy scum team without (so far as I saw) explaining any associatives except Ashera’s vote on Daisy.
- On your Town read of me, I had forgotten that we’d played two games together, rather than just one (XVIII New D3 keeps slipping my mind for some reason, probably partially because it was so short). However, I’d say that a lot of what I did, at least for the first few pages, was probably NAI for me (mechanics talk, voting for a quiet player to put some pressure on, etc.) - what would you say was actually Town-indicative?
unexplained, I’m going to address your reads/comments on me as well as the question.
- Page 1: Please could you explain how explaining and theorising on some of the setup rules is scum-indicative? All it really shows is that I’ve read and thought about the rules. I wouldn’t claim that it’s Town-indicative for me, but those who’ve played with me before (everyone bar AirPrime, and potentially you depending on who is behind that account) should be able to testify that I am more than willing to discuss mechanics and general strategy, particularly early in the game.
- Page 2: As I’ve said at least once in this current game, I much prefer to work with actual information over gut reads, and we’re fairly lacking in hard information at this point. I made some fairly basic vague guesses about items everyone can see. And the only question I asked about bidding on that page was to Mkkrabby, as they’d specifically complained about having an item bid-sniped by another player. “Everyone” is definitely an overstatement. Yes, knowing exactly what everyone has and what it does isn’t necessarily the best idea, and had I actually pushed for that I’d understand your point, but as it is it feels like you are stretching it to make a point.
- Page 3: Early game sees typically random voting, usually to see how people react or to get quieter people to respond. Luke was the only person who hadn’t posted anything up to that point, so I wanted to add a little pressure. Given that it actually sparked a slight pushback from Luke on page 4, I’d say it did cause a little movement. Until Luke actually posted, there was nothing I could do to really move it harder (besides jokingly encouraging Mkkrabby to vote for Luke).
- Your question: Yes, I’ve played forum games with most of this group (everyone bar AirPrime and maybe yourself) before. But as I’m no longer a society regular, we’re talking about maybe 2 or 3 games per year, so I’m relatively out-of-touch compared to everyone else’s knowledge of each other’s metas. Additionally, as previously stated, I much prefer to focus on solid information (vote analysis, deaths, claims, etc.) as I struggle with gut reads (particularly early on). We’re fairly lacking on the solid information right now: vote analysis is difficult without some role flips as a reference point, we won’t have explicit claims of role names at all this game, and most people aren’t willing to discuss items.
- To ask a question back: why have you only flagged some players and not others for discussing items, bidding and discussing potential setup details/roles? You’ve pushed myself, Archie and AirPrime for one or more of these things, but have conspicuously avoided mentioning, as a few examples, Mkkrabby’s bids, Mkkrabby and Tom discussing an item bid during the first nightphase (to the extent that we know Tom holds a Cursed item and that he out-bid Mkkrabby for an item during the night), or Ashera hinting that their role has a preference towards certain types of items and that they’re not interested in bidding for most of today’s available items. Maybe I’m tunnelling, but it seems a little like you’ve picked a couple of players to push and used those arguments to back that up, rather than judging everyone on those arguments and then deciding who to push…
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Post by archie on Jan 4, 2024 10:12:50 GMT
Yeah, that summary seemed wayyyy to targeted on Nick, Tom and I. Also, what do you want me to talk about? Because you've listed basically talking about everything as "+wolves" (which I assume means scum), so like... what do you want me to discuss? The weather? Besides which, a lot of my discussion was building of off others comments, and responding to questions, and yet I'm the only one called out for it. Feels weirdly targeted, like someone has realised they're safe for today if they can just get enough votes on me. But then you voted Nick, despite listing me as worse more times? I don't like that post, not at all, and I think it's quite evidential of scum tbh.
Part of my read on Daisy was the fact she didn't push back to Ashe's accusation. But since she just flat-out didn't post since and has had to be replaced, I'm now ignoring that. However, I notice that unexplained hasn't answered either, they've simply asked if anyone else has failed or passed it. Slightly suspicious.
As for Ashe... this is going to sound weird, but Ashe has a few play styles depending on their mood. And this one felt somewhere around playful, but the kind of playful they are as scum. That's elevated by the minimal amount of posts they've sent, tbf, so the read could easily change, but I'll stick by it for now.
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Post by archie on Jan 4, 2024 10:15:32 GMT
Okay, having checked, you talked about Nick more than me. Persecution bias is a bitch. That explains the vote at least, but I still don't like the post, and still think unexplained / Daisy is scum. Also, if it wasn't clear, I want my vote to carry over, so to be sure:
Vote: Unexplained
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Jan 4, 2024 11:07:46 GMT
Tom - Others have also asked this but can you expand on your archie read? As you can see, I have given him a fair few +wolves I can only describe it as a meta vibe read based on a game he was a groupscum then a game I was a mason with him - believe me I'm also pretty weary of all the mechanical talk, and I can understand giving it a +wolf but also I feel it's par for the course with the people you are calling out. However I do find nick slightly more suspicious on vibes. As for you, do you mind outing your identity? I kind of know everyone here except you which gives you kind of an advantage, I really don't want another demense king situation.
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