|
Post by Nick G on Aug 2, 2021 17:28:25 GMT
I mean I was gonna wait for someone to ask but I might as well jump the gun (hehe, that's a nice pun based on the previous Aegis message) and explain. Y'all know me, I much prefer a lower-pressure game where I can just vibe n chill, and I opted to be a vanillager because that would mean I wouldn't have to worry as much about me memeing maybe a little bit too hard, and ofc y'all know this is an option I take in a lot in greater idea games as well, as you can just sorta sit back and watch the chaos unfold. If you're specifically claiming Vanillager, I don't suppose you'd share which card it is?
|
|
|
Post by Daisy on Aug 2, 2021 17:31:38 GMT
I mean I was gonna wait for someone to ask but I might as well jump the gun (hehe, that's a nice pun based on the previous Aegis message) and explain. Y'all know me, I much prefer a lower-pressure game where I can just vibe n chill, and I opted to be a vanillager because that would mean I wouldn't have to worry as much about me memeing maybe a little bit too hard, and ofc y'all know this is an option I take in a lot in greater idea games as well, as you can just sorta sit back and watch the chaos unfold. If you're specifically claiming Vanillager, I don't suppose you'd share which card it is? 3 of Hearts
|
|
|
Post by yelyab on Aug 2, 2021 17:33:55 GMT
If you're specifically claiming Vanillager, I don't suppose you'd share which card it is? 3 of Hearts I can't believe that you would fake claim so early Daisy, pretty sus if you ask me. You claim to be a Vanillager when in actual fact you are a named town. Pretty sus if you ask me.
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 2, 2021 17:48:39 GMT
Doesn't claiming the card you got defeat the point of there being repeat roles? When I've played Greater Idea with the society before we've not done it, but society standard might have changed since I've not been to any events for a year.
|
|
|
Post by Nick G on Aug 2, 2021 17:53:50 GMT
Doesn't claiming the card you got defeat the point of there being repeat roles? When I've played Greater Idea with the society before we've not done it, but society standard might have changed since I've not been to any events for a year. I would assume that the point of repeat roles was to have higher probabilities for the more basic roles. The moderator did say pre-game that we could claim cards.
|
|
|
Post by elunedj on Aug 2, 2021 17:54:31 GMT
What solid information are you getting from what people discarded? I think Eluned, plus whoever discarded Cop and Escort have some explaining to do. And I like Amelie for what she discarded. what has amelie said they discarded to you? because I believe it is different from what they said to me lol I strongly agree with Bayley about discussing the why as to why people discarded things is purely WIFOM but since you want to know the why, I guess I'll resay what I've discussed in PMs with Ol and Nick: - I don't fear of being voted out early in the game, I enjoy playing but am also chill with being voted day 1 or 2, so the allure of early protection wasn't strong - First I thought governor would be a confirmed town then realised they wouldn't and so it was suddenly a lot less attractive card to pick - knowing me I could waste the save on a mafia and that would be very town detrimental - late game the role is swing-y and my alternative felt like a more stable benefit to town/just better - etc
~And all of that was WIFOM and none of it alignment indicative~
Vote: Zaiden (I don't believe you've said anything yet 🙂)
Reads: I don't particularly like any of you so you're all v close to neutral + it is early days none of this is fixed and most of it will be wrong.
I like you slightly more to I like you slightly less list:
kate, Distributive (seems not mafia but that doesn't mean they're good), Aegis > Nick > Silver > Ol > Thilbert (mistake seemed genuine but not alignment indicative and focusing on something I find NAI), Yelyab (concerns me), daisy (is friendly *suspicion*), silent people Doesn't claiming the card you got defeat the point of there being repeat roles? When I've played Greater Idea with the society before we've not done it, but society standard might have changed since I've not been to any events for a year. To my knowledge we are allowed to claim what cards we get, is there a detriment to doing so if you role reveal?
|
|
|
Post by elunedj on Aug 2, 2021 17:55:09 GMT
ugh spoiler difficulties sorry
|
|
|
Post by yelyab on Aug 2, 2021 17:57:18 GMT
I have already messaged a couple of people about ordered lists but I believe that giving ordered reads lists only help mafia with who to bring with them till late game. We should avoid this going forward imo.
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 2, 2021 17:58:38 GMT
Doesn't claiming the card you got defeat the point of there being repeat roles? When I've played Greater Idea with the society before we've not done it, but society standard might have changed since I've not been to any events for a year. To my knowledge we are allowed to claim what cards we get, is there a detriment to doing so if you role reveal? No, if anything it's an advantage. It's fine that Daisy did it, just checking what was expected.
|
|
|
Post by elunedj on Aug 2, 2021 18:06:15 GMT
I have already messaged a couple of people about ordered lists but I believe that giving ordered reads lists only help mafia with who to bring with them till late game. We should avoid this going forward imo. I would disagree and say that it helps town find mafia too because faking natural read progression is tricky but that was the most comprehensive one I have planned, future reads will probably just have things/the people that stick out to me
Ngl I think you're wasting an information source if you're not paying attention to read progression as well as vote progression, but each person hunts their own way
|
|
|
Post by Nick G on Aug 2, 2021 18:12:55 GMT
I don't think there's a detriment to card reveal. It makes it harder for Mafia to successfully fakeclaim a role with multiple copies, such as Vanillager (or Town Lover if they were actually a Mafia Lover), as they have to gamble on no-one else having that specific card.
|
|
koast
Vanilla Town
Posts: 10
|
Post by koast on Aug 2, 2021 19:51:56 GMT
Im Happy to claim my discard, Got rid of five of clubs (Mafia Goon). Only scum read I got rn is on kate, as disgarding SK seems like a very strange move to me. vote:kate
|
|
|
Post by silver on Aug 2, 2021 20:10:50 GMT
I think i mentioned it in all my dms but just for clarity’s sake:
I discarded mafia godfather
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 2, 2021 20:28:58 GMT
Im Happy to claim my discard, Got rid of five of clubs (Mafia Goon). Only scum read I got rn is on kate , as disgarding SK seems like a very strange move to me. vote:kateThe last two games I have played on this forum I got Mafia and SK, I didn't want to play it again. I don't think we've played mafia with each other before, but in general I much prefer playing roles with more teammates. Neutral roles who work by themselves are my least favourite. Even without that though, I don't see how discarding SK is a strange move.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Aug 2, 2021 20:30:07 GMT
Pretty sure discarding sk is one of the safest moves... but thats just my opinion lol
|
|
|
Post by Nick G on Aug 2, 2021 20:42:08 GMT
Im Happy to claim my discard, Got rid of five of clubs (Mafia Goon). Only scum read I got rn is on kate , as disgarding SK seems like a very strange move to me. vote:kateSerial Killer is a bit more of a variable role in terms of people wanting to play it or not. If we're going purely off of role attractiveness/utility, I'd be more concerned about those people who gave up useful Town roles (Cop, 1-shot Governor, Seer and Escort), although some of those people have given reasonable explanations (not necessarily true, but seemingly reasonable) for discarding those roles.
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 2, 2021 20:47:20 GMT
Im Happy to claim my discard, Got rid of five of clubs (Mafia Goon). Only scum read I got rn is on kate , as disgarding SK seems like a very strange move to me. vote:kateSerial Killer is a bit more of a variable role in terms of people wanting to play it or not. If we're going purely off of role attractiveness/utility, I'd be more concerned about those people who gave up useful Town roles (Cop, 1-shot Governor, Seer and Escort), although some of those people have given reasonable explanations (not necessarily true, but seemingly reasonable) for discarding those roles.
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 2, 2021 20:48:14 GMT
Care to provide examples of what these explainations are?
|
|
|
Post by Nick G on Aug 2, 2021 21:02:29 GMT
Care to provide examples of what these explainations are? - Daisy's discard of the Escort does actually match up with some Greater Idea games where they chose a more basic role over a potentially useful power role. (If I remember correctly, no-one believed them, they were exiled almost immediately, and it turned out that they were telling the truth.)
- I'd rather leave it up to Eluned to explain her reasoning if she wants to, but it was related to a difference in opinions over the value of the role that I can respect.
So far as I'm aware, we've not had claims for the discarded Seer, Mafia 1-Shot Governor, Mafia Reflex Doctor or the remaining discarded Vanillager. I'm not entirely sure I trust the reason given for the discarded Cop.
While I'd say that some of the other discards are definitely unusual (Mafia Compulsive Hider, Mafia 1-Shot Governor and Jester), I am not quite as concerned by those as I am the discarding of useful Town roles, because they may indicate that those players either didn't want to play as anti-Town, or went for roles that are weaker but perhaps more fun to play as.
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 2, 2021 21:10:27 GMT
I wouldn’t push too hard for people to explain why they discarded what they did/start scum reading people for their discards. One of the likely reasons is going to be “because there was a more powerful town role to pick” and we don’t want those people to come forward yet.
|
|
|
Post by Nick G on Aug 2, 2021 21:16:32 GMT
I wouldn’t push too hard for people to explain why they discarded what they did/start scum reading people for their discards. One of the likely reasons is going to be “because there was a more powerful town role to pick” and we don’t want those people to come forward yet. We don't want to force powerful Town roles to come forward and get taken out, I agree. However this is Day 1, and pretty much the only information we have is who discarded what role, especially as the suggested "random voting" to put a bit of pressure on people and see what happens is relatively weak/slow at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by yelyab on Aug 2, 2021 21:17:40 GMT
I wouldn’t push too hard for people to explain why they discarded what they did/start scum reading people for their discards. One of the likely reasons is going to be “because there was a more powerful town role to pick” and we don’t want those people to come forward yet. I agree, this is one of the reasons that claiming what you discard paints a target on your back. If for example the person who discarded cop claims they discarded cop and aren't mafia. The mafia then have a lot of intel pointing them to that person as potentially having a strong power role. Just an idea to not claim straight away.
|
|
|
Post by yelyab on Aug 2, 2021 21:19:36 GMT
I wouldn’t push too hard for people to explain why they discarded what they did/start scum reading people for their discards. One of the likely reasons is going to be “because there was a more powerful town role to pick” and we don’t want those people to come forward yet. We don't want to force powerful Town roles to come forward and get taken out, I agree. However this is Day 1, and pretty much the only information we have is who discarded what role, especially as the suggested "random voting" to put a bit of pressure on people and see what happens is relatively weak/slow at the moment. I disagree, there is a lot of info out there that is not setup discard related and I think people should try not to focus on discards nearly as much. I would say if you find someone suspicious then you get them to claim, same as you would their role. That way you don't risk outing people for no reason. Although it's a bit late given the majority of people who have claimed.
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 2, 2021 21:20:41 GMT
I wouldn’t push too hard for people to explain why they discarded what they did/start scum reading people for their discards. One of the likely reasons is going to be “because there was a more powerful town role to pick” and we don’t want those people to come forward yet. I don't really want people to say if they don't want. At least for the moment. Was just wanting to make sure Nick's claim had material basis. As for the "don't scum read people" part, I don't know how you expect us to take that information then. I am fine with the ideology that all players discard for their own reasons, and to an extent we cannot comprehend what their reasoning may be. I know there may be good reasons for those actions, or even just their own opinions that differ from mine. Bearing that in mind though, from my experience that statement can be applied to every read (besides confirmed roles) that I or others I've played with may have made. I do believe that the people we vote should be given a proper chance to defend themselves (we have 2 days), but I will still scum read/town read based on what was discarded. Because it is info, and all info is useful to some degree. The moral and logical aspect of this is on different sides for me.
|
|
|
Post by Zaiden on Aug 2, 2021 21:27:56 GMT
I can see the way in which this setup could have been bastard. Looking at the discards, imagine if there was scum majority in this game. The real mafia would have been the Lovers/Jester, with villagers being lambs to the slaughter. That would have been pretty funny to see.
But I'm glad we're playing closer to standard. That's definitely within my comfort zone. I won't add anything substantial atm because I'm pretty tired at the moment and haven't properly read through this thread. Don't think I will have too much time tomorrow either, but I will look to sink my teeth in about Wednesday.
One person has come forward to ask me for my discard. I will tell my discard to the next two people who message me.
|
|
|
Post by Nick G on Aug 2, 2021 21:28:31 GMT
We don't want to force powerful Town roles to come forward and get taken out, I agree. However this is Day 1, and pretty much the only information we have is who discarded what role, especially as the suggested "random voting" to put a bit of pressure on people and see what happens is relatively weak/slow at the moment. I disagree, there is a lot of info out there that is not setup discard related and I think people should try not to focus on discards nearly as much. I would say if you find someone suspicious then you get them to claim, same as you would their role. That way you don't risk outing people for no reason. Although it's a bit late given the majority of people who have claimed. I'm struggling slightly on exactly where we currently have lots of other information? - The vast majority of discussion so far has been about the discards, apart from a couple of people giving mild reads that they've said don't currently have much backing.
- While understandable because it is still technically early Day 1, we've not had any serious pushes or counter-pushes. (No one player has had more than 2 votes at any one time, 5 players haven't voted at all so far as I can see, and only 2 players have moved their votes so far.) If there are no dynamic changes in the votes, there's very little information to analyse. (Particularly as, given that the votes are only tallied at the end of the dayphase rather than at a majority, there is absolutely nothing stopping Mafia from voting each other early and just removing it later on.)
|
|
|
Post by Daisy on Aug 2, 2021 21:33:20 GMT
I can see the way in which this setup could have been bastard. Looking at the discards, imagine if there was scum majority in this game. The real mafia would have been the Lovers/Jester, with villagers being lambs to the slaughter. That would have been pretty funny to see. But I'm glad we're playing closer to standard. That's definitely within my comfort zone. I won't add anything substantial atm because I'm pretty tired at the moment and haven't properly read through this thread. Don't think I will have too much time tomorrow either, but I will look to sink my teeth in about Wednesday. One person has come forward to ask me for my discard. I will tell my discard to the next two people who message me. Ay SJ the day's only 48 hours long, we've only got until noon on Wednesday (sounds like you might not know)
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 2, 2021 21:43:08 GMT
Vote: Koast
Wanna put a vote in before I fall asleep. Can justify later. Also, I assume there is no hammering in this setup.
|
|
|
Post by Daisy on Aug 2, 2021 21:44:42 GMT
Also idk where to put my vote right now, but I don't see a reason for it to stay on Thilbert when it's looking just like a me issue on them.
Unvote: Thilbert
Wait I did just remember, we have two people who still hasn't spoken yet afaik.
Vote: Kratos
You've got a cool name, how's being the god of war going for ya these days? I'm assuming COVID has slowed things down a bit?
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 2, 2021 22:01:50 GMT
As for the "don't scum read people" part, I don't know how you expect us to take that information then. Take it however you want, you can even scum read them for their discard, just don't do it because they discarded a town power role. That's going to have the side effect of you scum reading the most important town players and them being more likely to be exiled D1. I can see the way in which this setup could have been bastard. Looking at the discards, imagine if there was scum majority in this game. The real mafia would have been the Lovers/Jester, with villagers being lambs to the slaughter. That would have been pretty funny to see. But I'm glad we're playing closer to standard. That's definitely within my comfort zone. I won't add anything substantial atm because I'm pretty tired at the moment and haven't properly read through this thread. Don't think I will have too much time tomorrow either, but I will look to sink my teeth in about Wednesday. One person has come forward to ask me for my discard. I will tell my discard to the next two people who message me. It's rally not worth thinking about how the game could be bastard. For all I know this could be a Truman Show game where I'm the only real player, it could literally be anything, so there's no point trying to play around it.
|
|