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Post by mkkrabby on Dec 30, 2023 19:44:02 GMT
Ive been wondering where he is too, Archie was low activity when we played with him before but not Luke
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Post by archie on Dec 30, 2023 20:01:45 GMT
I was at work until 5 then busy with family
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Post by archie on Dec 30, 2023 20:02:22 GMT
And Daisy was absolutely right, I was AFK when bidding finished
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Post by archie on Dec 30, 2023 20:07:32 GMT
I think a moderate attitude to revealing items we have is the best approach. If we don't reveal any at all, we have nothing to go on except social reads, and that kind of defeats the point of the game. That being said, naming everything and speculating on private bid items abilities feels too much like it'd help the evil faction.
I agree btw, the evil team are likely aliens or similar. Although whether that's just renamed mafia or actually functionally different (only 1 kill or similar) idk. And I definitely think there's a third party, no way there wouldn't be with these mods. I'm now second-guessing that as I type it, but I'll stick by it for now.
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Post by Nick G on Dec 30, 2023 20:32:16 GMT
mkkrabby- Mechanically, an Alien faction would make sense.
- Thematically, I’ve re-read the introduction flavour text and the evil faction are probably called The Syndicate or Agents of the Syndicate (or some close equivalent).
Tom- Unless people leave the bidding to the very last minute (which I could see happening), it won’t be entirely blind chaos. And it’s risky to leave it last minute if other people are online, as you either need to bid first in that last minute and hope someone doesn’t outbid you, or bid extra to try to counter any slightly earlier bids.
archie
- It would be nice to have something to go on. I much prefer to go off actual hard information and what we can infer from it, rather than starting from practically nowhere. (I know we got lucky last game, but a huge proportion of that game were actually anti-Town anyway.)
- I just don’t know how far we safely go, based on what others have rightly pointed out about the names of items.
- It would be interesting to know if any items were completely passed over during last night’s bidding, or if there was anything that someone seemed desperate to get? (Even if we don’t know the name of the item yet, knowing that someone seemed desperate to get an item would be interesting.)
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Dec 30, 2023 20:32:38 GMT
I think a moderate attitude to revealing items we have is the best approach. If we don't reveal any at all, we have nothing to go on except social reads, and that kind of defeats the point of the game. That being said, naming everything and speculating on private bid items abilities feels too much like it'd help the evil faction. I agree btw, the evil team are likely aliens or similar. Although whether that's just renamed mafia or actually functionally different (only 1 kill or similar) idk. And I definitely think there's a third party, no way there wouldn't be with these mods. I'm now second-guessing that as I type it, but I'll stick by it for now. You're extremely limited on 3P options in an 8 player game tbh
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Post by Nick G on Dec 30, 2023 20:35:59 GMT
Just to get things moving, I’ll throw a vote out. As the only person who hasn’t yet posted…
Vote: Luke
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Post by Daisy on Dec 30, 2023 20:37:31 GMT
I think a moderate attitude to revealing items we have is the best approach. If we don't reveal any at all, we have nothing to go on except social reads, and that kind of defeats the point of the game. Do we need the info tho? Most Day 1's exist with no info, and I don't see how town benefits from knowing where the items/power is. You don't have town outing who has power Day 1 in most mafia games because it then makes those players vulnerable to the mafia.
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Post by Nick G on Dec 30, 2023 21:04:43 GMT
Daisy- In fairness, we usually have some information in Day 1. In open setups, we may not know who is who, but we know what we’re up against. In Greater Idea (or the similar CardWolf setup), we know what’s been discarded, which may at least give us something to start with for each player.
- Unlike most setups, all of us will have a chance at getting more power as the game continues, so losing someone with a power now isn’t likely to be crippling. (And we’re not asking people to reveal what items actually do.)
- Right now, the only public information we have is that we had the opportunity to bid for 3 items last night, the name of 5 unknown-effect items on auction today, and the number of players in the game. We don’t even know the exact name of the evil faction, or whether there’s a third party in play.
- Unlike some setups, we’ve got plurality elimination in play, so someone will be eliminated. I don’t want it to be completely random (partially as it’s obviously not ideal in the game, and partially because it would be unfortunate for whoever it happens to as we’ve only got around 2 forum games per year). We need to have something to go on, whether that’s people’s interactions / voting patterns (but with no hard information to compare to), or information about items.
Tom, I’ve not looked through the respective wikis recently, but both MafiaScum and MafiaUniverse have a fair few 3rd party roles, aside from the generic Serial Killer, Survivor & Jester. If there’s a third party in play, it’s probably got no inherent killing power. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s got an ability and/or win condition around acquiring items.
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Post by Daisy on Dec 30, 2023 21:32:31 GMT
1) That's true. I don't think knowing what items are in play gets us closer to understanding the faction(s) we're up against tho, without also giving those factions an idea of what they're up against too. I fail to see why outing items is +town on Day 1.
2) That's fair, just keep in mind players need to commit money in order to buy items so it's not like the playing field is gonna remain level as the game goes on.
3) Yea and I think that's completely fine. We've already managed to agree that there's probably a pair of evils lurking about, so we can use that info when it comes to analysing votes and the like.
4) Day 1's are never random. Players will always need to come to some sort of choice as to who to eliminate, plurality or not. Someone will typically always get voted in a Day 1 (if that Day 1 is played to a decent level), and yea that's gonna suck for them because there aren't many forum games a year on this site, but that's how the game works. We don't disregard voting out players Day 1 at this society because it might upset people, because voting Day 1 is most often optimal play and gives us good info regardless of if it's a town or mafia flip.
I agree we need something to go on, but that's why talking and voting exists. I don't think I need to explain how social reads exist in mafia but you get me, Day 1 votes will be decided based on how that day has played out, not because a random number generator has chosen 2 players to be in a tie or w/e.
Leo & I have started a wagon on Tom, is there a particular reason you wanted to forgo that in favour of voting a slot that isn't even here?
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Post by Nick G on Dec 30, 2023 21:59:15 GMT
Daisy- I haven’t been arguing that we need to know the functions of any items in play. But if items are such a key part of the game, then we ought to have some discussion, even if it’s just whether there were items that attracted heavy attention, or whether there are items that weren’t even bid on and are now out of play.
- It may not remain level, but unless someone has scooped what turns out to be a very powerful item for a very low price, it should stay relatively even as those who buy more and/or better items early on will have less to buy later, and if evil target the high-spenders on the idea of them having better items, then they’ll be leaving alive those who can bid more money as the game goes on.
- This early, it will likely be quite hard to identify a pairing unless there’s a serious defence / counterwagon effort, and that all tends to be somewhat flimsy day 1 unless something injects information into the game (like a day action). We may be able to use it in later days once we have information to compare it to, but I don’t know how usefully we can analyse it without a reference point.
- It may not be completely random in most games (although the Discord games did sometimes have borderline-arbitrary day 1 exiles), but we have less information to make a meaningful decision with (and less ability to read people without real-time reactions). And part of my point about plurality/randomness is that, in a small player count game, it could be down to a randomiser if we end up on something like 3-3-2 or 2-2-2 (with 2 abstentions) voting. Look at last game, it did come down to a last-minute panic between 2-3 wagons that could easily have come down to a tie.
- We can get information off talking and voting, but without hard information to discuss, real-time reactions, and a reference point for vote analysis, it’s going to be tricky, especially for those of us who either aren’t as up-to-date with society meta or have an information-based playstyle.
- Day 1 usually starts with random voting. I’d seen the votes on Tom, but I decided I’d rather put a little pressure on the one player who has been completely silent so far, following the old Mafia tradition of pushing the quiet ones. I’m not against a Tom wagon, but with 2 votes already on it and no votes elsewhere, I thought I’d throw a different idea into the mix and see what happened.
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Post by AirPrime on Dec 30, 2023 23:13:18 GMT
Currently I have almost nothing to go on, but in case of lack of other options I would certainly be up for following the (faux) first rule of Mafia Society: - It is always morally correct to shotgun Tom in the face.
Half-jokes aside, Luke's lack of messages is notable, but then again it was only because of pings that I even remembered this game was on.
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Post by archie on Dec 31, 2023 0:09:29 GMT
Right, well firstly I agree that not voting Tom was the good choice there. I don't particularly care about picking Luke, voting quiet people is always something I'll back. However, if Nick had voted Tom, that would be 3 votes in a game where 5 are required to kill. Which isn't ridiculous, but I still don't like all it allows evil to do, especially if someone else decides to vote Tom. Also, I'll say something. I have a suspicion about Daisy's role power. Not her alignment, or the actions of any of her objects, but the ability her role allows. I'll elaborate at a later date, but I think she can probably guess what I think. That being said, whilst we're discussing whether or not to muse over item actions (we should), should we discuss our own powers? I'm more hesitant about that, I think we should discuss items more freely than roles at this point.
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Post by ashera on Dec 31, 2023 0:26:00 GMT
*drops a loaf of bread*
Vote: Daisy
She’s failing the vibe check
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Post by mkkrabby on Dec 31, 2023 7:14:00 GMT
Big mother wants a restaurant franchise and a new pair of shoes.
Bid: McMeatyBurger Franchise, 5 Bid: GravitySchmavity Brand Trainers, 5
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Post by luke on Dec 31, 2023 11:41:21 GMT
Hey guys
I was busy all of yesterday.
I wish I'd bid differently now.
Agreed on 2 scum most likely, could be Aliens or have a regular nightkill, I'd expect our items to be quite good in the latter case though.
I've read the game once through and am currently waiting for reads to develop.
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Post by archie on Dec 31, 2023 13:29:13 GMT
I want an item And I spent a minute deducing what some of them could be, so these are what I'll put in a bid for Bid: Masks of Thalia and Melpomene, 4 Bid: Existentially Worrying FleshClone, 2 Bid: FedEx TeleWarp Pad 3
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2023 14:41:16 GMT
Right, well firstly I agree that not voting Tom was the good choice there. I don't particularly care about picking Luke, voting quiet people is always something I'll back. However, if Nick had voted Tom, that would be 3 votes in a game where 5 are required to kill. Which isn't ridiculous, but I still don't like all it allows evil to do, especially if someone else decides to vote Tom. Also, I'll say something. I have a suspicion about Daisy's role power. Not her alignment, or the actions of any of her objects, but the ability her role allows. I'll elaborate at a later date, but I think she can probably guess what I think. That being said, whilst we're discussing whether or not to muse over item actions (we should), should we discuss our own powers? I'm more hesitant about that, I think we should discuss items more freely than roles at this point. They won't believe we are masons again archie
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Dec 31, 2023 14:55:45 GMT
*drops a loaf of bread* Vote: Daisy She’s failing the vibe check I know what you mean but I'm always happy to let daisy cook you know what im saying
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Post by Nick G on Dec 31, 2023 15:44:44 GMT
So, is Ashera attempting to softclaim a “baking” role, whatever that may do? Or am I reading way too much into a comment about a loaf of bread?
I know we’re not allowed to reveal our exact role names, which is going to make any attempt at discussing claims later in the game great fun and a lot wordier. (X is claiming a role that does this to that, Y is the role that does this with items, etc.)
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Post by Nick G on Dec 31, 2023 16:30:52 GMT
ashera, is there anything specific about Daisy’s vibes that are “off”, or is it more of a general feeling?
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Post by ashera on Dec 31, 2023 17:18:29 GMT
So, is Ashera attempting to softclaim a “baking” role, whatever that may do? Or am I reading way too much into a comment about a loaf of bread? I know we’re not allowed to reveal our exact role names, which is going to make any attempt at discussing claims later in the game great fun and a lot wordier. (X is claiming a role that does this to that, Y is the role that does this with items, etc.) *Pops up from a hidden trapdoor* At the all-nighter, Daisy mentioned *crumbing* roles as an idea. So I wrote the bread thing as a little crumb joke teehee. Stop me now or I’ll keep *** ing all over the place. The Daisy vibe check is something I’ll explain later
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Post by Nick G on Dec 31, 2023 17:28:11 GMT
So, is Ashera attempting to softclaim a “baking” role, whatever that may do? Or am I reading way too much into a comment about a loaf of bread? I know we’re not allowed to reveal our exact role names, which is going to make any attempt at discussing claims later in the game great fun and a lot wordier. (X is claiming a role that does this to that, Y is the role that does this with items, etc.) *Pops up from a hidden trapdoor* At the all-nighter, Daisy mentioned *crumbing* roles as an idea. So I wrote the bread thing as a little crumb joke teehee. Stop me now or I’ll keep *** ing all over the place. The Daisy vibe check is something I’ll explain later I’m loaf to believe anything day 1, but I can accept this for now…
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Post by Nick G on Dec 31, 2023 17:39:17 GMT
Informal Tally
Votes Tom - 2 (E-3): Daisy, Mkkrabby Luke - 1 (E-4): NickG Daisy - 1 (E-4): Ashera
Items McMeatyBurger Franchise: 5 - Mkkrabby Masks of Thalia and Melpomene: 4 - Archie FedEx TeleWarp Pad: 3 - Archie GravitySchmavity Brand Trainers: 5 - Mkkrabby Existentially Worrying FleshClone: 2 - Archie
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Post by Nick G on Dec 31, 2023 17:41:39 GMT
The numbers probably mean very little at this point, but it can be useful to see where things stand. The bids are likely more interesting than the votes at this point, as bids involve some level of commitment.
I am guessing that all the current bids will be overtaken later in the game phase, but it also seems relatively likely that people will be relatively cagey about significant bid increases or a bidding war at this stage, either to not signal what they want, or not to drive the price too high.
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Post by mkkrabby on Dec 31, 2023 18:22:07 GMT
[/b] Unvote: Tom
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Post by mkkrabby on Dec 31, 2023 18:22:59 GMT
I dont need to have my vote on tom, i was going ot join the putting pressure on luke one but i forgot i didnt send it with my bids before i left for work this morning
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Post by Nick G on Dec 31, 2023 18:44:40 GMT
I dont need to have my vote on tom, i was going ot join the putting pressure on luke one but i forgot i didnt send it with my bids before i left for work this morning You could still join in on the Luke vote? He’s only on 1 vote right now, so it’s not risky, and he’s still comparatively quiet.
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Post by AirPrime on Dec 31, 2023 18:57:52 GMT
Bid: Existentially Worrying FleshClone, 3
I have no fear of the existential worry, and having a second (I assume backup) body could come in very handy.
Masks of Thalia and Melpomene: 5
Sburb Refresh and Does Not Commute taught me not to trust weird masks, but I'm curious, and they don't appear to be cursed so it's probably safe
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Post by AirPrime on Dec 31, 2023 18:58:48 GMT
Formatting correction: Bid: Masks of Thalia and Melpomene: 5
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