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Post by Elements on Dec 12, 2022 17:47:14 GMT
Vote count 1.2Current votes Daisy S-3: Demesne King, AsheraLuke S-4: DaisyNot voting: Luke, Tom, Hannah, Nick G, MollyWith 8 alive it takes 5 to treestump someone. Link to the rules
Link to previous votecountLink to next votecountDay 1 will end either when a player reaches a majority or votes or at whatever time I wake up on Monday the 19th Mod note: I ain't sayin' nofink 'bout no-one
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Post by Daisy on Dec 12, 2022 18:27:00 GMT
[My name is Sally I was a member of the society like 5 years ago but go off On a more general note, and this may come down to WIFOM, but I don’t think we’re likely to see any serious bussing in this setup. - If the bus actually results in an treestump, Mafia lose.
- Assuming that a Town member is treestumped today, the Mafia choose who remains alive for the final 3. So any debate around who looks suspicious due to not voting any flipped Mafia members can probably be reduced to WIFOM due to Mafia leaving alive a Townie who trusted one of the Mafia who was voluntarily treestumped.
Isn't this exactly the reason we would see bussing?? There's nothing objective to go on today so the most lkiely outcome is a town vote then we use today to work out tomorrow. You seem to be the person who says the most can anyone tell me if thats a town thing or a mafia thing for Nick? Omg hi Sally that's a rly nice name heck yea Also repeating a point Nick made later down in the thread - If Mafia are voted out today then they lose the game completely, hence why bussing at the later stages of the day is likely something we won't see. Or at least, something that imo we won't see I might be wrong dsklgj
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Post by Daisy on Dec 12, 2022 18:27:57 GMT
I'm bored
Unvote: Demesne King Vote: Luke
Hey Luke what do you think of Nick? I noticed he's answered your question and I'm wondering if that changes your read on him at all.
I'm sorry!! We can still have a 1v1 if you want or we can vote Luke together! Wanna start a wagon with me on Luke? <3
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Post by hannah on Dec 12, 2022 20:20:04 GMT
sorry to be that person but what do NAI and WIFOM stand for?
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Molly
RNJesus
That's a nice thing you've said! Let's see how I can relate it back to Ratchet and Clank
Posts: 104
Pronoun: She/Her
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Post by Molly on Dec 12, 2022 20:32:50 GMT
sorry to be that person but what do NAI and WIFOM stand for? Oh you're good I was that person last time lmao. NAI IIRC is Non Allignment Indicative (So something that doesn't really indicate whether the player is town or mafia), while WIFOM is Wine in Front of Me, taken from that scene in The Princess Bride where they swap the poison wine. It's basically trying to figure out if someone made the expected choice or the unexpected one, with no real way of telling usually. There's a mafia wiki that explains the term better than I can probably do
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Dec 12, 2022 21:01:00 GMT
Oh god I wrote a fat post with a ton of quotes in it which took me like 30 minutes to write and it didn't fucking send lol and I don't have copy. I don't think I'll be quoting stuff in the future cause its just so annoying to do.
Oh well basically I'm currently kind of townreading Luke currently just based on tone. I don't have a lot of logic behind it but he's basically just doing what he does in irl mafia games in my opinion where he kind of just throws out reads with not a lot of basis but it seems rather pure. I think he's being wagoned cause of his awkward opener with his question about "how many alignment indicative posts have you seen" but to be honest I kind of expect stuff like this from luke.
As for Daisy, I don't think she actually believes the Luke/Ashera scum read that they used different accounts as that's completely insane. She did acknowledge it's a tinfoil and I do think she'd come up with something like that as either alignment, but I think if she keeps pushing that then that is kind of scum indicative for her just cause I expect her reads to be very dynamic as town.
Hannah kinda sounds town-ish I guess, not much to say there.
I don't know nick but I'm almost confident nothing he's said so far is anything he wouldn't say as mafia.
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Post by Daisy on Dec 12, 2022 21:14:58 GMT
As for Daisy, I don't think she actually believes the Luke/Ashera scum read that they used different accounts as that's completely insane. She did acknowledge it's a tinfoil and I do think she'd come up with something like that as either alignment, but I think if she keeps pushing that then that is kind of scum indicative for her just cause I expect her reads to be very dynamic as town. just as an fyi, Bayley (old mafia president) & I played on each other's accounts in my first game of forum mafia here. It's happened several times in the society and definitely isn't outside of the realm of possibility. as much as Ashe & Luke's explanations make sense, DAMN is it a coincidence. tho tbf that's not rly why I'm on Luke right now, it's more because of this post: A few questions: Nick, what do you think of Daisy? Ashera, you mentioned that I used the purple colour to get you to unvote me, and then admitted as much. Do you not find this suspicious? Molly, which post involved/induced WIFOM? idk what exactly it is about short question posts that ask people to talk about very specific things, but it reeks of someone wanting to control the flow of the game. not that that's necesarily a BAD thing, but it's something I've learned to be quite wary of because if the person controlling things is mafia that makes things kinda stinky for town.
also now i'm interested in how Tom's sussyness on me translates into forum :3 (for those who don't know he has a tendency of not trusting me in mafia games lmao)
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Post by Nick G on Dec 12, 2022 21:21:50 GMT
Daisy, is Luke being actively suspicious in your opinion, or is this another lighthearted attempt like your page 2 rally against me? hannah- You never need to apologise for questions! It’s easy to forget that some people haven’t seen the terminology before.
- Molly explained it well. NAI is Non-Alignment Indicative, basically behaviour that doesn’t make someone look like Mafia or Town. (This can vary from player to player - what might be, say, suspicious for most people, may be NAI behaviour for a specific person.) WIFOM is Wine In Front Of Me, and generally boils down to there being endless reasons and counter-reasons for a particular action/situation/result (such as the endless “do they know that I know that they know that I know that…?”).
Tom
- 1 vote from someone known for throwing around silly votes in early Day 1 is hardly a “wagon” on Luke. While you may read it as pure, throwing out a lot of reads with little in the way of evidence/substance is easy to do as either alignment, and the lack of substance undermines his scumread on me for not automatically having the same read as him on Daisy.
- I obviously don’t have particularly recent experience of Daisy’s playstyle, but I’ve seen them tunnel on someone as Town (I believe they did so at times in the CardWolf forum game) and have their reads flit around as Mafia while trying to see what sticks. Despite the fact that I should have the best chance of reading them due to having played more with them than with anyone else, I haven’t managed to make up my mind on them yet in this game.
- Obviously I don’t know Hannah, but I’m confused as to how you have any sort of read on Hannah? The posts so far haven’t been particularly game-related with the exception of the NAI/WIFOM question. (I don’t think she’s necessarily suspicious - I’m not sure what she’s done that could actually indicate an alignment.)
- Yes, I could be saying all this as Mafia. I have tried, over my time in Mafia, not to have a particular difference in playstyle when playing different alignments, as it tends to be a drawback once established. (What inferences there have been over time, e.g. the belief that my use of vote spreadsheets in Discord Mafia was a Townie thing to do, were made by other players and not reinforced by myself.) But as I’ve said to Luke, saying that I could do something as Mafia doesn’t mean I am Mafia.
I was actually planning to vote you to stir up some conversation by targeting a quiet person (as most of the rest of this post was written by the time that you posted), but now I’d like to follow through on it because I’m not sure I entirely “trust” some of the reads you’ve given.
Vote: Tom
And I heard it, calling to me...Drums. The never-ending drums...
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Post by Nick G on Dec 12, 2022 21:27:02 GMT
Well, this is what happens from taking a while to review my thoughts before posting. Daisy you have answered my question before I even asked, and have phrased my thoughts on Luke that I was still considering how to phrase (or even whether to say it now, or wait until later). Can you hear the drums, Daisy?
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Post by Daisy on Dec 12, 2022 21:30:11 GMT
Daisy , is Luke being actively suspicious in your opinion, or is this another lighthearted attempt like your page 2 rally against me? Bit of both, obvs as the day goes on the reads will become more serious. I feel like I do have some reasons to be wary/sus of Luke now as I outlined in my previous post, but also I acknowledge those reasonings are still very lightweight and mostly are me reaching to find reasons to create a push. Gotta create some sort of action ofc :3
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Post by luke on Dec 12, 2022 21:50:00 GMT
Daisy , is Luke being actively suspicious in your opinion, or is this another lighthearted attempt like your page 2 rally against me? Bit of both, obvs as the day goes on the reads will become more serious. I feel like I do have some reasons to be wary/sus of Luke now as I outlined in my previous post, but also I acknowledge those reasonings are still very lightweight and mostly are me reaching to find reasons to create a push. Gotta create some sort of action ofc :3 I asked those questions because they helped me get a better read on people. I think Molly's response was the most town
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Dec 12, 2022 22:34:05 GMT
Tom - 1 vote from someone known for throwing around silly votes in early Day 1 is hardly a “wagon” on Luke. While you may read it as pure, throwing out a lot of reads with little in the way of evidence/substance is easy to do as either alignment, and the lack of substance undermines his scumread on me for not automatically having the same read as him on Daisy.
Wanna start a wagon with me on Luke? <3 Hmm
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Tom
Private Investigator
Posts: 373
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Post by Tom on Dec 12, 2022 22:34:53 GMT
Bit of both, obvs as the day goes on the reads will become more serious. I feel like I do have some reasons to be wary/sus of Luke now as I outlined in my previous post, but also I acknowledge those reasonings are still very lightweight and mostly are me reaching to find reasons to create a push. Gotta create some sort of action ofc :3 I asked those questions because they helped me get a better read on people. I think Molly's response was the most town Got any more reads?
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Post by Daisy on Dec 12, 2022 22:42:41 GMT
Tom - 1 vote from someone known for throwing around silly votes in early Day 1 is hardly a “wagon” on Luke. While you may read it as pure, throwing out a lot of reads with little in the way of evidence/substance is easy to do as either alignment, and the lack of substance undermines his scumread on me for not automatically having the same read as him on Daisy.
Wanna start a wagon with me on Luke? <3 Hmm Heyyy the wagon hasn't started just yet, it's a theoretical wagon for now
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Post by Daisy on Dec 12, 2022 22:43:00 GMT
Gotta have at least a couple of votes on someone before it's wagoning time
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Post by luke on Dec 12, 2022 22:52:56 GMT
I asked those questions because they helped me get a better read on people. I think Molly's response was the most town Got any more reads? Daisy, Hannah, Molly Tom, Demesne King Ashera, Nick What about you
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Post by Nick G on Dec 13, 2022 8:49:22 GMT
Tom- Daisy asking if anyone wants to start a wagon on Luke isn’t the same as Luke actually being wagoned. The actual wording completely undermines your claim, given that “start” indicates that the wagon doesn’t yet exist. There is precisely 1 vote on Luke right now, and not a huge amount of pressure on them. (There was an earlier, fairly short-lived vote from Ashera, but that didn’t overlap with Daisy’s vote.)
- If 1 vote and an unanswered request for support counts as a wagon, then I’ve been wagoned (page 2 by Daisy, not counting at least 3 players subsequently indicating that I am potentially suspicious just because something ‘could’ technically be done by Mafia), and Daisy is being wagoned with 2 votes by Demesne King and Ashera (which was the case when you mentioned a wagon on Luke). Yet you conveniently didn’t examine that, just a non-existent wagon on Luke.
- I made 4 points about your selection of comments/reads, and your response was “hmm” with flimsy evidence on a single point. The fact that you wouldn’t (or couldn’t) really address the other points is… interesting.
Daisy- We overlapped posts a bit, but thank you for confirming what’s behind your vote on Luke.
luke- Is your townread on Molly based on the fact that she has the same logic trail as you, regarding my mechanics/strategy talk? Or is there something about their style/etc. that you’ve spotted from experience?
I think reads and voting are still likely to be fairly fluid at this stage (particularly as there are some players who I’d like to see more from if I’m to have a chance of reading), but I do have a few thoughts.
- Daisy: Town-leaning. The engagement feels genuine and there is a train of logic beyond “oooh look someone else to vote”.
- Luke: Neutral, but this is a matter of balance rather than having nothing indicative. There is productive engagement, and while I don’t necessarily agree with some of their reasoning, there is calm follow-through rather than an instant capitulation/deflection (or an aggressive defence) when challenged. The main reason that I see them as neutral / still in the balance is because they are putting themselves in a good position, as Daisy said. The early questions and being the first to form a technically logical read (I think) may give them influence over the game. This may feel similar to their argument on me, but I’m not saying that it overrides the rest of their contribution, and a position of controlling the game/discussion is much more powerful than simply giving general setup advice.
- Tom: Suspicious. I’m not inflexible on this, but I’ve seen no substantial evidence for their earlier comments (the one quote they used doesn’t even support the wagon claim properly in isolation, let alone in context), I feel like they’ve echoed the comments on me by Luke & Molly, and they avoided discussing their other reads when challenged (instead choosing to ask Luke for more reads).
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Post by Demesne King on Dec 13, 2022 10:58:52 GMT
I'm sorry!! We can still have a 1v1 if you want or we can vote Luke together! Wanna start a wagon with me on Luke? <3 omggosh lets do it!!
vote luke
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Post by Demesne King on Dec 13, 2022 10:59:31 GMT
Daisy, Hannah, Molly Tom, Demesne King Ashera, Nick What about you is this like just a list of people in the game or what is this??
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Post by Demesne King on Dec 13, 2022 11:04:39 GMT
[My name is Sally I was a member of the society like 5 years ago but go off Isn't this exactly the reason we would see bussing?? There's nothing objective to go on today so the most lkiely outcome is a town vote then we use today to work out tomorrow. You seem to be the person who says the most can anyone tell me if thats a town thing or a mafia thing for Nick? Omg hi Sally that's a rly nice name heck yea Also repeating a point Nick made later down in the thread - If Mafia are voted out today then they lose the game completely, hence why bussing at the later stages of the day is likely something we won't see. Or at least, something that imo we won't see I might be wrong dsklgj oh and thank youu!!
I have some thoughts about the game in terms of how mafia have to play this gmae but idk if its not a good idea to be talking about that now
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Post by Demesne King on Dec 13, 2022 11:19:34 GMT
I don't really understand why anyone is townreading Nick at this point... all they seem to be saying is things apparent about the game and by their own admission they think they're acting how they would as mafia soooo I'm also not really sure how Nick can have a mafia read on Tom since they've basically said nothing all game except that they had a big post ready and then lost it and the post they made instead just has some really room temperature takes unless I'm missing some context
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Post by luke on Dec 13, 2022 12:11:22 GMT
Daisy, Hannah, Molly Tom, Demesne King Ashera, Nick What about you is this like just a list of people in the game or what is this?? Top is most town, bottom is most sus
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Post by luke on Dec 13, 2022 12:19:22 GMT
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Post by Nick G on Dec 13, 2022 12:27:54 GMT
I don't really understand why anyone is townreading Nick at this point... all they seem to be saying is things apparent about the game and by their own admission they think they're acting how they would as mafia soooo I'm also not really sure how Nick can have a mafia read on Tom since they've basically said nothing all game except that they had a big post ready and then lost it and the post they made instead just has some really room temperature takes unless I'm missing some context Okay, that’s an interesting take: - Unless I’m missing something, precisely one person is townleaning me, and I’ve not even seen recent confirmation of that. And the “by my own admission” is that the behaviour is NAI, not that it’s definitely how I would play as Mafia (whereas your post implies that a “Town Nick” would play differently). It’s interesting that we’re now up to 4 players (half the lobby) who have chosen to emphasise that I’m suspicious simply because NAI content can be said by Mafia.
- On the “apparent about the game” comment - we have at least one player (maybe more) with no previous forum Mafia experience, and likely several with only 1-2 forum games under their belt. Majority voting (as opposed to simultaneous voting at the end of the dayphase) can lead to completely different strategies/situations that you don’t even see in in-person Mafia. Add in the day 1 flagbearer mechanic for the Mafia team, and I felt it was worth bringing up.
- Additionally, I’ve engaged with Daisy, Tom and Luke on more than just game mechanics. To say “all” I’ve been saying is stuff that is apparent about the game is a misrepresentation and does feel like you’re lining up to place a vote on me (as I’m assuming that your vote on Luke doesn’t have much weight, due to its context).
- Tom may or may not have had a huge post (I don’t deny that technical issues happen, as I frequently experience them myself, but it can be a convenient excuse to use less detail), but that’s beside the point. Tom talked about a “wagon” on Luke that didn’t even exist (while ignoring what was technically a wagon on Daisy), gave a read on Daisy that basically said “if you are Town you’ll change your reads” (which could be seen as an attempt to get Daisy to back off Luke), townread Hannah when Hannah has had very limited game-related content so far, and followed the aforementioned “NAI could mean Mafia” line that keeps being used to cast suspicion on me. When challenged on this, all Tom did was quote a post by Daisy that somewhat undermines the claim about a wagon on Luke, and avoid answering anything else in favour of asking Luke for more reads.
It does come down to the fact that we’re around 48 hours into the first (and only, if we get this right) dayphase of the game. We all need to start giving reads, and I much prefer to give reads based on some reasonable chain of logic/evidence. Not only does this narrow down the pool of people I can actually supply reads on (I’ve not really got enough to read Molly, Hannah or Ashera, and previously probably couldn’t have made a meaningful analysis on you either, as your main game content prior to this set of posts was a joke vote on Daisy), it puts me at odds with Tom due to the aforementioned flaws with (or lack of) evidence/logic for their comments/reads.
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Post by Daisy on Dec 13, 2022 13:20:58 GMT
@nick G if you're at odds with Tom and are starting to lean scum on him, is there a particular reason why your vote isn't parked there?
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Post by Nick G on Dec 13, 2022 14:14:03 GMT
@nick G if you're at odds with Tom and are starting to lean scum on him, is there a particular reason why your vote isn't parked there? My vote has been on Tom since yesterday. (See earlier on Page 4.) warwick-mafia.freeforums.net/post/25731/threadSpeaking of votes, I’d like to see some votes (with reasons) from those who have yet to vote, even if it’s only a mild suspicion.
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Post by hannah on Dec 13, 2022 15:15:42 GMT
soo I haven't said a fat lot because I'm finding it hard to read people I know irl online and haven't really got any solid takes. that being said, I'll try my best Daisy's coming off as pretty townie right now as she's sort of throwing votes around without any visible agenda. I agree that the purple font thing with Ashera and Luke was a bit odd but not necessarily incriminating. I think Luke could be a bit scummy actually since he's played a few of these games before and his questions are more aimed towards specific people rather than the group as a whole (apart from the AI one) and I feel like if he was town there would be more collective questions??? rather than trying to build up a more personal rapport with individuals??? I'm unsure about Molly but I'm inclined to say she's good rn (maybe I'm biased because she thought I looked like Taylor Swift, maybe not) I'm not sure about Tom's alignment but I do believe he had a massive post that was lost, there's little point lying about that this early when you've got people like me who haven't said much at all as of yet. For DK and Nick, the two people that I'm pretty sure I've not played a game with before, I have nothing to go off of apart from stating your playstyles which as far as I know could be completely different to what you're presenting. But you look like you'll be having an interesting discussion so I think I'll just sit back and watch that unfold. so: Townreads: Daisy, Molly (DK?) Neutral: Nick, (DK?), Tom Maybe a bit more scummy: Luke, Ashera Vote: LukeLike I say this is my first forum game so apologies if my reads or reasoning are complete garbage haha
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Post by hannah on Dec 13, 2022 15:20:07 GMT
wait shit I just edited for grammar but apparently you're not supposed to do that sorry!!
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Post by hannah on Dec 13, 2022 15:20:27 GMT
my first genuine post and I done goofed already smh
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Post by Elements on Dec 13, 2022 15:53:37 GMT
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