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Post by jackoclypse on Jul 7, 2019 18:03:46 GMT
Also maybe everyone could report now how many abilities they have now as that can be very useful to catch mafia out later in the game (and almost did with me last game)
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Post by kate on Jul 7, 2019 18:30:05 GMT
I think suspicious players should be forced to spend all their money in today's auction on threat of eliminate Why would we want the suspicious players to have more items? Surely this should be the other way around.
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ArnieDelsey
Dreaming God
Dont let my avatar fool you, I'm actually mafia.
Posts: 639
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Post by ArnieDelsey on Jul 7, 2019 18:31:12 GMT
Seeing as there's already a bet on the first item (unless you can revoke your bets) and the fact that I want to contribute this game:
Lets get a bid up for item number 2!
Bid 1 on Cluedo Board.
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Post by Hectic on Jul 7, 2019 19:10:55 GMT
jackoclypse : Why do you think mafia probably have a day chat? kate : The advantage to mafia on revealing bidding groups would be so they can narrow down what townie got what item, which is particularly useful if they're trying to kill someone who got an investigative sounding item. What advantage would revealing grant to town? ArnieDelsey and Thilbert : Why start bidding now? We should spread the items out between the towniest members of town, and let them get it for cheap. Plus, we have much more gold than mafia combined, and early bidding will only make town members waste gold more often than mafia, since they can secretly collaborate.
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Post by pandamonium on Jul 7, 2019 19:36:09 GMT
Also maybe everyone could report now how many abilities they have now as that can be very useful to catch mafia out later in the game (and almost did with me last game) I'm not a fan of this idea. It gives mafia information that can help them choose a night kill. Presumably if someone has 4 abilities they're probably one shot or situational and if someone has one ability it would probably be a stronger more useful ability mafia would want to eradicate.
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Post by Hectic on Jul 7, 2019 19:41:08 GMT
Also maybe everyone could report now how many abilities they have now as that can be very useful to catch mafia out later in the game (and almost did with me last game) Do you mean abilities won by auction as well? Zaiden : Was a joke. Haven't liked your first few posts. Didn't like your attack on me, and you seem defensive here: kate , I think it should have been pretty obvious that Ben had published the night chat information while I was typing out my initial response, considering there wasn't much of a gap in time between the two responses. While you engaged with my other points, I feel it's odd that you avoided engaging with the possible setup we have on our hands where balancing is concerned, though you do raise some really great points about bidding groups. Also, I really don't like the fact you've revealed you didn't make any bids in night 1. Why did you feel the need to reveal that, and why didn't you place any bids? Vote Zaiden.
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Post by pandamonium on Jul 7, 2019 19:41:15 GMT
I'm out of town to celebrate my birthday, then there's a friend's wedding coming up, and then I've got my second birthday soon after. I'll catch up on everything when I'm back. Two birthdays! Does this mean you're secretly the queen?
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Post by Hectic on Jul 7, 2019 19:44:48 GMT
I'm out of town to celebrate my birthday, then there's a friend's wedding coming up, and then I've got my second birthday soon after. I'll catch up on everything when I'm back. Two birthdays! Does this mean you're secretly the queen? Woah, you've just said the code-phrase to activate my secret ability. That's odd, I just snapped my fingers but my ability didn't activate. It's true, I could've been day roleblocked. Or perhaps our good mods over here, JAMES and BEN didn't hear the snap. I'll try again, with my window open this time.
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Post by pandamonium on Jul 7, 2019 19:48:04 GMT
If that doesn't work you could try using a megaphone
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Post by Hectic on Jul 7, 2019 20:06:03 GMT
If that doesn't work you could try using a megaphone Might have to considering the rock paper scissors tournament hasn't begun yet.
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Post by jackoclypse on Jul 7, 2019 20:15:49 GMT
Why would we want the suspicious players to have more items? Surely this should be the other way around. I think he meant that we want suspicious players to spend all of their money (so that they can't buy anything later). Yeah this, sort of like a bonus semi eliminate >Do you mean abilities won by auction as well? No I would not, not yet anyway >jackoclypse : Why do you think mafia probably have a day chat? Because its been in many previous games and I think its usually agreed to make the game more interesting. >I'm not a fan of this idea. It gives mafia information that can help them choose a night kill. Presumably if someone has 4 abilities they're probably one shot or situational and if someone has one >ability it would probably be a stronger more useful ability mafia would want to eradicate. Not necessarily but its a trade-off to be sure
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Post by Benjamin on Jul 7, 2019 20:19:43 GMT
If that doesn't work you could try using a megaphone Might have to considering the rock paper scissors tournament hasn't begun yet.
We need some time to work out whether we're doing trivial duels on the honor system, or using non-googleable facts about James' childhood.
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Post by jcraster on Jul 7, 2019 20:22:30 GMT
Damn, I still haven't posted about my whole antivirus situation - it's integral to the secret day 1 mechanics.
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Post by distributive on Jul 7, 2019 20:24:47 GMT
Hellooooooooooooooooooooooooooo everybody!
Why it is most wonderful to be back in a forum game. Let's begin with my thoughts on the set up:
So the roles in this game are presumably largely going to revolve around items. Whether or not the regular roles we expect to see in some form have some condition based around items is plausible but not what we need to be discussing right now. I'm reminded of my first forum game (the author game three games ago) and the roles we had then. The main differences are the different bidding systems and the blind nature of the items. I'd be more careful when considering the names of items, as well as who shows interest in which items, as well as people who show interest in simply possessing as many items as possible (such a role existed as third party last time and could very well do in any alignment again).
There's nothing been said in the game so far I'm reading into particularly yet. Obviously we eliminate day 1. Let's not go through this nonsense again.
Vote: SAM (reason: spite)
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Post by jcraster on Jul 7, 2019 20:27:30 GMT
We have a minimum bid of 10 gold. There is currently no minimum on how much you need to exceed the previous bid by.
Current bids: Fake Mustache - 0 Cluedo board - 0 A voodoo doll shaped bus and free needles - 0 Repo Van - 0 Dunce’s Hat - 0
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Post by vj on Jul 7, 2019 20:35:24 GMT
I agree that we need to eliminate day 1. As hectic said, I think we shouldn't claim what or how many items we got from bidding, that just gives information to the mafia. Roleclaiming/flavourclaiming also seems pointless at the moment since roles in this game are not alignment indicative. As for the setup, there are probably 3-4 mafia and 1-2 neutral roles. Mafia are confirmed to have night chat, may have daychat and start with more that 100 gold (said in the rules), so they seem quite strong. Hence I'd say there are more likely 3 than 4 mafia in the game. ^ Makes sense. Feels like there might be 4-5 anti town roles. We should spread the items out between the towniest members of town, and let them get it for cheap. Plus, we have much more gold than mafia combined, and early bidding will only make town members waste gold more often than mafia, since they can secretly collaborate. ^ I agree on this. The Day Auctions should be based on town consensus. The day auction: Fake Mustache Cluedo board A voodoo doll shaped bus and free needles Repo Van Dunce’s Hat Cluedo board seems like some kind of investigative ability and the voodoo doll shaped bus seems like a bus driver or something. Whoever bids on these items might become a target for mafia in the night?
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Post by pandamonium on Jul 7, 2019 20:36:34 GMT
Let's start off. I did not bid N1 and don't plan on doing so in the foreseeable future until some kind of strategy can be formulated. We'll see. You start off completely ignoring what Hectic said and doing the complete opposite, even talking about your current ideas for future voting without even commenting on his post or saying why you think it's a bad idea Hectic , agreed on not giving hints about your role unless you're close to being lynched. However, while I think random voting is a good way to kick things off, I'm also not keen on you placing your vote down on someone when you're going to be gone for a while when we've got little to nothing to go on. The situation can always change. There is another thing I want to say about you, but I want to wait for you to come back to be able to explain stuff instead of looking bad right when you won't be sticking around. This is very contradictory. It's the start of day one. It's not like Hectic is just going to leave it there for the whole day. I don't like the second part of this section "there's another thing I want to say, but not yet" either. Why not just come out and say it at the time he's most likely to be around rather the wait for him to come back when people might have forgotten about it. This whole section feels highly provocative for no reason. kate , I think it should have been pretty obvious that Ben had published the night chat information while I was typing out my initial response, considering there wasn't much of a gap in time between the two responses. While you engaged with my other points, I feel it's odd that you avoided engaging with the possible setup we have on our hands where balancing is concerned, though you do raise some really great points about bidding groups. Also, @arniedelsey, how did you know that Ben messed up with clarification on the mafia nightchat when a daychat could have been perfectly feasible? Not that I think you'd be so stupid to come out and say something like that if you were mafia, but it bothers me how you seemed to have been aware nevertheless. So I would like some explanation there. I agree with Hectic, this first bit here seems unnecessarily defensive. Again this second bit seems contradictory. Your logic seems to have gone along the lines of "I don't like that you've noticed the mistake", "But you're not stupid enough to point it out as mafia", "I don't like that you noticed the mistake" - Vote Overall your posts seems contradictory and far flung to a side of accusation or defence where it isn't necessary. Vote: Zaiden
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sam
Dreaming God
Posts: 609
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Post by sam on Jul 7, 2019 20:53:06 GMT
Hello everybody. Great to be back, and I hope we're all having a delightful summer.
In previous games I've sometimes advocated for a no-eliminate on the first day. I have noticed that every time I do this, much to my chagrin, it sends just enough of the other players into a white-hot rage to get me either very nearly lynched, or lynched. In fact, this effect is so potent that distributive has decided to preempt me this time, like that weird episode of Doctor Who with the creepy lady on the plane.
My enjoyment of remaining alive is just one of the reasons that I'm not advocating a no-eliminate this time. I actually think it's bad in this case anyway, because it seems like (as jack and aurimas, among others, have pointed out) that there are probably a smaller number of more powerful mafia in the game, meaning that individual townies are less important, so mislynching is less crucial. If my (relatively weak) role is anything to go by, killing a town is likely to be inconsequential day one, as there aren't many powerful items in play that we risk losing.
I'm not yet going to comply with jack's request to reveal ability count, I think a more productive use of our time would be to talk about what the items in play are likely to be and discuss a good strategy for how we go about bidding for them. I'm not sure whether I agree on the force-a-player-to-spend-money-like-it's-going-out-of-fashion idea, I've been turning it over in my head but really can't decide whether it's good for town. I'll let you know when I have more coherent thoughts on it.
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Post by Hectic on Jul 7, 2019 20:55:43 GMT
We need some time to work out whether we're doing trivial duels on the honor system, or using non-googleable facts about James' childhood. Bid 45 Koruna on James' childhood facts.Damn, I still haven't posted about my whole antivirus situation - it's integral to the secret day 1 mechanics. I find it pretty suspicious that James hasn't revealed thid important bit of information to the town yet, I'm leaning towards serial killer for him atm. As for viruses; 15 discovered is my guess? Early townlean on Pandonomium for his scum-hunting. Townread on Benjamin for his concise answers to questions in what looks like an attempt to help town. distributive : What do you mean by "There's nothing been said in the game so far I'm reading into particularly yet."?
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Post by Hectic on Jul 7, 2019 21:12:30 GMT
Let's not ability claim; as James' mentioned earlier, our roles are not indicative of our alignments, so claiming abilities mostly helps mafia as they can safely claim their real abilities while reviving information about town's abilities.
I don't agree with the consensus forming that there'll be a smaller amount of more powerful mafia this game. There's nothing to indicate that, other than the fact they receive more gold, and that there 'may' be a day chat, which means nothing.
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Post by jackoclypse on Jul 7, 2019 21:12:33 GMT
We could give the best item(s) to the most trustworthy read so any town protective role could focus on them (although strongman is a possibility)
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Post by Hectic on Jul 7, 2019 21:18:39 GMT
Anti-collusion methods for mafia during night bidding means: 1) They have to bid before being able to discuss in the night. 2) They are not allowed to discuss bidding/night items during the night. 3) They have a day chat but no night chat.
2 seems the most likely, 1 could be difficult in the small timeframe of the night, and 3 would mean the mafia would have to decide on all night actions within the day. The rules indicate "Measures are in place to make it more difficult to coordinate purchases during the night.", which makes 1 and 2 less likely as they would make coordinating purchases practically impossible, so I'm so I'm kind of thinking this day chat but no night chat theory may hold some weight.
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Post by vj on Jul 7, 2019 21:28:06 GMT
Hectic, for ur point 3, Benjamin has already confirmed that Mafia has a night chat.
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ArnieDelsey
Dreaming God
Dont let my avatar fool you, I'm actually mafia.
Posts: 639
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Post by ArnieDelsey on Jul 7, 2019 21:34:26 GMT
Hectic Except Ben already mod-confirmed that a night chat exists... Also, whoever said it’s best to spread all these items for cheap to town reads, imo is clearly not thinking strategically. Given imperfect information about everyone else’s bids in the night phases/pre game auctions means that in order to secure items, anyone will likely be overbidding their sum of money to ensure they attain at least one item per phase each (eg 50+ gold). Imo mafia have one shite ability each, alongside a faction kill. The rest is up to item procurement. Given day auctions have public information on who bids what for what price, Mafia can’t just secure items WITHOUT drawing attention to themselves. So why not instead act towny to essentially be given it by town for cheapo. Also three Mafia all voting on one item in day phase? YEAH, probs not gonna happen because that’s minimum 20 gold gone on an item that may have meant one thing (voodoo doll being bus drive) but actually could be something way worse because of ambiguity. The ability to anonymously secure items is mafia’s greatest ability imo (beyond the obvious kill every night) and I’m certain the additional funds is to aid mafia procure items in general (mainly this way) BECAUSE they need them as much as town needs items, in order to secure an advantage.
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Post by pandamonium on Jul 7, 2019 21:37:39 GMT
We could give the best item(s) to the most trustworthy read so any town protective role could focus on them (although strongman is a possibility) I think this could work if everyone says what they think the items could be then we can collectively decide what people get and that person can tell us what their item does/did the next day. My ideas for what the items do: Fake Mustache - some for of disguise. potentially making someone appear as mafia - framer like - or (much less likely) makes someone easier to eliminate somehow (idea from the "eliminate all the mustaches" in mafia games we play) Cluedo Board - could definitely be something investigative - I'm gonna step out there and assume that everyone had some form of cluedo card in their first bidding pool - one had location, one had weapon, one had character - maybe if people posses the board and a card they get specific information A voodoo doll shaped bus and free needles - this being a straight up bus driver ability seems too obvious. I'm thinking more on the lines of a preventative bus driver ability. E.g. pick some people to put pins in and they can't be bus driven or put pins in items and they cant be swapped Repo van - this seems more like a bus driver imo. possibly not for people but for items. Pick two people and swap their possessions Dunce's hat - this is the one i've got the lease of an idea of. But i do think it's probably a bad item that maybe limits certain powers that said - I bid 0 for the free needles
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Post by Benjamin on Jul 7, 2019 21:38:21 GMT
Ben confirmed that mafia do have a night chat. Hectic , for ur point 3, Benjamin has already confirmed that Mafia has a night chat. Hectic Except Ben already mod-confirmed that a night chat exists...
I'd like to take this opportunity to confirm that that the mafia do indeed have a night chat.
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ArnieDelsey
Dreaming God
Dont let my avatar fool you, I'm actually mafia.
Posts: 639
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Post by ArnieDelsey on Jul 7, 2019 21:40:06 GMT
To further my point, mafia’s total money pool is gonna be minute compared to town. So they’re gonna need to find ways to cheaply acquire items. Since by day 3 they won’t have any funds left likely ( even if they started with like 125 gold each) Also, my best guess is mafia cannot discuss bidding tactics in the night chat because otherwise it is too difficult to restrict collusion if any mafia members are in the same bidding group.
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Post by pandamonium on Jul 7, 2019 21:42:33 GMT
There could be three mafia who are in a different group each night which would limit bidding collution
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ArnieDelsey
Dreaming God
Dont let my avatar fool you, I'm actually mafia.
Posts: 639
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Post by ArnieDelsey on Jul 7, 2019 21:48:24 GMT
We could give the best item(s) to the most trustworthy read so any town protective role could focus on them (although strongman is a possibility) Cluedo Board - could definitely be something investigative - I'm gonna step out there and assume that everyone had some form of cluedo card in their first bidding pool - one had location, one had weapon, one had character - maybe if people posses the board and a card they get specific information [/b][/quote] That’s a very specific guess... makes me question if you’ve got motivations in the procurement of that item.
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ArnieDelsey
Dreaming God
Dont let my avatar fool you, I'm actually mafia.
Posts: 639
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Post by ArnieDelsey on Jul 7, 2019 21:49:13 GMT
As well as knowing information from more than one bidding pool.
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