koast
Vanilla Town
Posts: 10
|
Post by koast on Aug 3, 2021 12:56:14 GMT
It seems town isn't willing to push this idea, but i just wanted to raise it as a potential flag. Keep in mind silver seemed to defend this idea hard for kate for future rounds. unvote:katefor now i think it is best to remove non-talkers so i have kratos in my eyes if he continues to lay under the radar. But do agree with Daisy on the issue of misinformation spreaded by Distributive as needing to be adressed.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Aug 3, 2021 12:56:37 GMT
yelyab ive noticed in almost all of your posts (particularly the ones where you try and address everyone) you always omit me. any reason?
|
|
|
Post by silver on Aug 3, 2021 13:00:56 GMT
It seems town isn't willing to push this idea, but i just wanted to raise it as a potential flag. Keep in mind silver seemed to defend this idea hard for kate for future rounds. To clarify, I have no read on Kate as of yet. I just disagreed with this line of thinking (Dont drop it just because i said i dont agree if you think its right btw, stick to your reads )
|
|
|
Post by kratos on Aug 3, 2021 13:03:01 GMT
I’m here, talking now
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 3, 2021 13:12:34 GMT
Daisy I don't trust you are vanillager. While this may be an easy meme which saves you in the early game, it can just as easily be a mafia or SK that uses this to justify late game survival. Furthermore, it only acts to make fake claiming easier, since you said it first and early. Obviously roles in this game can fact check this, but the claim was too risk free for me to confidently believe in it. I would also like further clarification on reads today. Page 2 is a long time ago. Idk, I mean no counterclaims have come through so I find it hard to see how I can not be the three of hearts in this scenario? I also don't think claiming my role this early is risk-free by any means, doing so makes me essentially a named townie and paints a massive target on my back coming into Night 1. In terms of reads I still feel Distributive is the most scummy, they've lied to p much every player in the game afaik, several times in certain scenarios, and I find it hard to believe keeping around a player who seems to want to falsify information she's giving out is a good thing in any way, shape or form. Sure, in the back of my mind I know that Distributive can do this as either alignment, but I don't know how this play stands to benefit anyone in the game bar Distributive, and I think we need to remember this is a team game, not a solo-bolo. Thank you for adding and clarifying reads. With regards to the claim, I do think that you are fairly safe from retaliation, at least in early game. Firstly, you assume people CAN counterclaim. If I had to picture what role is more likely to be discarded by the group on average, Id say its vanillager. A lack of vanillager discards may have communicated to you that not many were drawn. Even if you were unlucky (as I consider a guess of what number and suit to say is probably going to end up indisputable) I think a decent majority of players here wouldn't like to counterclaim you. Reason is that most of us want to survive, and thus basically dying day 1 just to kill you off may be not fun for other players to consider. Its a forum game, and I imagine we collectively wanted to live for the long haul, to make the experience more fun. You basically threaten d1 suicide with the person who has that card. And that is only if someone holds that card. As I said before, unlikely. Therefore, I do consider it to be unlikely you obtained vanillager. The last reason why I think you may be faking it is because it is too perfect for me right now. The fact you happened to stumble on a vanillager and another strong-ish town role is a decently low probability (at least to be certain in rn). I agree it is subjective, and I be skeptical, but me no trust. It does seem too risk-free
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 3, 2021 13:19:41 GMT
New to forum games and been busy last couple of days so will try to increase my posts. I think the read on Kate is perfectly valid as i don't believe for a second you would discard SK, inherently one of the more fun roles in the game. The only reason i can see for such a discard was a strong Mafia role or some kinda of other fun Neutral role. As for safe reads i don't feel its possible to really grasp a surefast townie read on anyone on D1 in games without info from the next day so i honestly have no real good reads. So i'm just probing into the discard i am most suspicious and surprised of. You seem to be missing the point. Its not that what you are saying is not a justificatory reason for your vote. Im not attempting to say I know better than you there. It is that you seem to be avoiding explaining some of the statements you have said. We are questioning and challenging this in response, displaying to you that the claim you made is not universally agreeable. Then, in response, you seem to be thinking we are saying you are wrong, thereby recurring the same effect I said was my problem and why I voted. For example, why do you think SK is particularly fun? As Silver has stated, and I agree, the amount of information roles means playing with it can be considered a nightmare. Furthermore, why do you think that discarding that card is out of nature for Kate? If it isn't, do you not think that asking why they did so to get more clarity is better than just saying its not sufficient? Hell, I discarded Jester, which is probably understood by some to be a more "fun" third party option, but you haven't used this case against me. This is what I mean. Explain your case so that we understand. Otherwise I am forced to interpret the worst.
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 3, 2021 13:33:12 GMT
In terms of information everyone is missing out on quite a large Avenue of exploration which is the day chats that people have. Unless you have a day chat with everyone. You’ve had to make a choice about who to chat to. That is information in and of itself. I will explain more when I have a chance but am travelling today so won’t be very active. I'm looking forward to this explanation. As Nick said, I don't really see the DMs that people have open to be useful information. Especially since at least half of all people involved aren't the ones starting the interactions. In this case since it's a new mechanic for this forum I think a lot of people D1 were just opening DMs with anyone for the sake of it. I distrust Kate right now. Part of this belief is held by the thought that they are trying to setup for their partners. I haven't seen anything to contradict that perspective How has anything I've done set up for anyone else? Who do you think my partners are? i don't believe for a second you would discard SK, inherently one of the more fun roles in the game. The only reason i can see for such a discard was a strong Mafia role or some kinda of other fun Neutral role. Fun is subjective, I don't like playing as SK and anyone who's played mafia with me before can confirm that. What's more interesting to me is that the possibilities you gave for alternatives were a strong mafia or a strong neutral role. Why did you leave strong/fun town roles off that list? You are basically implying here that you would always pick scum if given the chance, to the point that me not picking scum is suspicious enough to vote for. You realise how that looks right? What was the deciding factor for you in picking the role you did this game?
VOTE: koast
Idk, I mean no counterclaims have come through so I find it hard to see how I can not be the three of hearts in this scenario? I also don't think claiming my role this early is risk-free by any means, doing so makes me essentially a named townie and paints a massive target on my back coming into Night 1. There is a 14/54 chance of any card being picked to be played, so saying that no one is counter claiming you is a really weak reason to say you are essentially confirmed. It in no way makes you a named townie, even if you are believed in the claim if anything it takes the target off your back while mafia hunt for more powerful roles to kill.
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 3, 2021 13:42:16 GMT
I distrust Kate right now. Part of this belief is held by the thought that they are trying to setup for their partners. I haven't seen anything to contradict that perspective How has anything I've done set up for anyone else? Who do you think my partners are? What you have done: when you said about discarding roles and how we shouldn't scum read people on account of it, it sounds like you are trying to protect a mafia buddy which may have discarded something incriminating. Alternatively, you may be trying to set up a push on a player which discarded a powerful scum role. It invalidates, or attempts to invalidate, what I consider to be an important piece of data for early day reading. Lets say for example that Thilbert drew mafia compulsive hider and BP villager. And lets say that you are scum and you know that you don't have a strongman. Or even, say you are worried he drew BP villager. Then you need to try to invalidate the seemingly town indicative fact that they discarded compulsive hider. Hence, that statement helps to do so. it tries to draw doubt and scepticism into something others are trying to use to reach the right answer. This isn't to say you are definitely doing this, but that is my suspicion. On your second question, that doesn't matter. Its irrelevant for me to discuss who I think you are with for the purposes of my claim, since it doesn't break my case. Also, considering the nature of the setup and how early it is, that question won't even bring meaningful fruit. Using that as a rebuttal is just a statement I have heard scum say many times before now, and it only acts to make you seem more suspicious in my eyes.
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 3, 2021 13:45:15 GMT
I only asked the second question because I thought you were implying there was a specific person I was defending. Your logic wrt the first question makes sense even if I disagree, so I'm not worried about an answer to the second one.
|
|
|
Post by Ol on Aug 3, 2021 14:39:19 GMT
Morning all. Im glad we are talking about reads more now, seems mafia had a good chat about how to play the next day and are executing it currently. As such, Ima list off every read I have. It was fun taking pointers from Nick on spreadsheeting Kate Contrary to seemingly popular belief, I distrust Kate right now. Part of this belief is held by the thought that they are trying to setup for their partners. I haven't seen anything to contradict that perspective, nor do I see these "good town pings" that others are getting. Seems like a easy coverup right now. Their contributions sometimes can also be seen to be NAI and the role discard does nothing to save them from this read. SK says nothing at best, scum indicative at worst. Ol From when you have reappeared from under the abyss in d1-p2, I feel uneasy about your posts thus far. You are aiming way more at others than yourself, and considering the lack of convincing you have seemingly attempted to perform you are giving the vibe of caring more about your survival. Of course, politicians are known for this technique, but so far we have had a full day. Furthermore, you seem to have the most ironclad voting decisions in the whole forum, saying you will "only be willing" to vote for a few players. Surprised really that anyone here can say that with conviction. Daisy I don't trust you are vanillager. While this may be an easy meme which saves you in the early game, it can just as easily be a mafia or SK that uses this to justify late game survival. Furthermore, it only acts to make fake claiming easier, since you said it first and early. Obviously roles in this game can fact check this, but the claim was too risk free for me to confidently believe in it. I would also like further clarification on reads today. Page 2 is a long time ago. Silver No real vibes in public, and off-putting in private chat. The thing you have going for you most is your discard, but I feel like if you were town you usually enjoy taking this and amplifying it up. Making yourself a lightning rod for kills and then encouraging doctors to target you, thereby helping town get more days to consider exiles. You also don't have the luxury Thilbert has where you discard the best remaining scummy role for yourself. If anything, your actions worry me deeply, and your words haven't made things better. With that in mind though, nothing you have done right now necessitates a vote. You discarded a powerful role, thereby wait a day. Distributive From what I have understood from reading threads, you have been telling different stories to different players. In my mind, this harms your credibility considerably. To be honest, this distraction has severely tainted my view of you thus far. I know the comments that are given to me if I do this stuff, and the effect is subsequently being caused by you now I believe. However, I do not necessarily think you are scum as a result. Instead, I'd rather let you die day 4, if that gives an indication to people as to what my theory is. I think mafia may end up killing you for me. Elunedj Honestly, you seem pretty towny to me. I haven't gotten any negative pings, other than a burning internal thought that you are playing the long game. Town one shot governor does hurt your case a bit, and the justification is because I believe that role can be used on other players, so your case that you were ok with dying soon doesn't fully support your decision. Despite that, however, your actions seem to have good intent so far. So paranoia is all I am really using in argument against your case. The PM habits seem pretty good also. Thilbert You discarded mafia hider. Thats the good part. The problem is that successive posts you have made seem to rub some players up the wrong way. Here is where I say that it doesn't matter. You have made it very clear that a cop check tells them what your alignment is, and therefore your fate is going to be sealed anyway. Exiling you is probably a waste, unless we have no other avenues. And as I am trying to demonstrate, we most certainly do. Nick G I like your early game activity and discussion points. The problem is that you can and have done so as scum more than once, since it leads to a situation where we have "no credible data" against your case. Like Elunedj, scepticism is my main fighting point right now, so I like how your are doing things as of now. You are acting more proactive than defensive. Yelyab Everything you have said so far, minus your read list, is NAI talk. Hell, the read list is even maybe of that nature too. I probably will want to interrogate further, to force something out that isn't NAI, but yea. I have no reason beyond scepticism and disliking NAI talk to go against you. Sorazodia I can.....stomach your reasons for discarding seer. It still makes me think you are more likely scum, but I can accept that this is a understandable reason to some degree. You also voted Thilbert. I see your reason, but I have two points for why I am suspicious of that post. 1) It seems like you didn't get that read yourself. I know that this is easily disputed by the claim "you can't assume what I think" and yes I can't if I am trying to be unequivocally right. But I am suspicious. Its kinda how I work, and we have longer to get more on you which is more solid. 2) For reasons specified with my Thilbert comments, its pointless to vote for him. Other roles will find him out soon enough if he did play weaker scum. So, on the assumption he is town (which I am making rn), your vote seems more scummy (if only because you voted for town, and the main town I can see). Zaiden Willingly giving your discard only to the "first two players that message me" seemingly demonstrates a lack of worry about what roles and alignments you provide that information to, which thereby implies you may have a role that is not concerned with giving that info to players of worse alignments (basically, implying you are anti-town). Also, there is the whole lack of conversation thing, but I don't like that being a d1 sus reason. More so amplifies the concerns I have with the post you did send. Koast Its a shame that every part of what you have posted is something I distrust. First, you discarded a role I do think is more likely to come from scum. The reason why is private to me right now, but it doesn't sit well. This alone wouldn't actually make me sus of you whatsoever though, unfortunately your vote is a very scummy one from what I am reading. You say that Kate's role discard is suspicious, and I agree. But there is no way In my mind the reason I am worried is the reason you are talking about. Even if it was, it does not validate the read. You then give no more evidence, thereby implying the unsupported claim made that Kate is sus because of the discard is universally understood and agreeable, otherwise what you have done is posted an unsupported claim and used it to justify an exile, which seems to demonstrate a lack of concern with getting other players to agree with you. As has been demonstrated in this forum, the claim is not universally understood and agreeable. This is why I voted. As I said before, a lack of speaking is only a preferred exile if there are no better options, so I consider the justification to be insufficient. But I have given more than that here. The lack of posting only amplifies this. Kratos Hasn't posted yet. See Koast and Zaiden for why this doesn't mean much to me yet. Beyond this, I do also sus the player that discarded cop. The other roles I understand or can see better alternatives, and I do agree that the discard is not in of itself a good reason to vote and sus a player. But I feel it does require a good bit of explanation, especially when I believe it is the single best role in this game. Obviously its all my own opinion, but Im laying it down so it isn't a shock later. This does thereby mean I lean sus for this on the players that have not claimed discards, but that is a drop in the ocean right now. Disclaimer: Its day 1. I have been very harsh and negative as we have played day 1s several times (most of us at least) as well as me wanting to push this d1 into not being a NAI mess. Every player now should have ample time to defend themselves (I think, I understand if there are issues preventing that) and mainly I am incredibly sceptical generally. I am not this harsh generally, but considering this is d1 I think it will be more helpful if I am. (god I'm hoping I did the spoiler text right so this isn't a huge af post) Just to respond to your point on me Aegis, my small vote pool is because there are multiple players I'd like to see left alive - I have a larger group of unsorted or town-pingy people that I'd like to get more content from as opposed to those who I'd say are giving me sus. Otherwise, big fan of your logical assessments (not to say I agree with all of them but they feel quite genuine, so you're one of the various "people I'd like to see left alive") elunedj , to respond to your @ on page 5 - ye I do have a town read on Thilbert for today largely because I liked their early page 1 behaviour of fake claiming & generally feeling like they were scum-hunting (e.g. iirc there was something where they thought they'd caught someone out but had misread? I respect the transparency). Also vibes from their discard choice.There's only a few peeps who fall in the "not given me ANY town-pings" and "their discard might belie a concerning mafia role" and hence why my vote pool is v smol. And to butt in on the topic of Kate's discard - I can understand Koast's logic which feels like "someone discarding a fun role is weird, they might've gotten a p powerful mafia one!" so not inclined to vote them for their sus on Kate, but Kate discarding SK is on the same vein as Aegis discarding Jester for "why would you discard a neutral aligned and potentially fun chaos role?" and it's valid that some peeps don't prefer the chao plays - basically I've the two of them pretty much NAI though Kate has some sensible vibes that lend me to have them in the "why not keep them alive" pile Who knows? Either of them could've gotten a spicy alternative I'll stay on Silver for the moment, gonna have some solid group chats, and will reevaluate this evening
|
|
koast
Vanilla Town
Posts: 10
|
Post by koast on Aug 3, 2021 14:45:09 GMT
It seems that people who know Kate better are saying that her discarding SK is valid for her character. Everyone was just throwing out sus so I put my opinion into it.
I don’t believe pushing me for my wrong read is a smart play. I think we should push Kratos and Distributor for their lack of info on their discards. One not claiming it and the other handing miss information out.
|
|
koast
Vanilla Town
Posts: 10
|
Post by koast on Aug 3, 2021 14:46:47 GMT
And on the lack of sus onto the jester discard I chose to ignore it as I can understand why Jester could be discarded as getting voted off and ‘you win’ isn’t the most fun concept to a lot of people (including me)
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 3, 2021 14:49:09 GMT
I can understand Koast's logic which feels like "someone discarding a fun role is weird, they might've gotten a p powerful mafia one!" so not inclined to vote them for their sus on Kate Please help me then, because I legitimately don't understand. Why is the assumption if I discard a """fun""" role I must have a powerful mafia one and not a town one. Why is this logic more applicable to me than to any other player in the game? Can't I say "Govenor is a really fun role, Eluned discarded it, therefore Eluned's probably mafia"?
|
|
|
Post by distributive on Aug 3, 2021 14:53:58 GMT
I had a post prepared yesterday and then my computer crashed and it was gone sadness. That said, my reads have since changed, so I'll write them as they now stand below.
I'll also admit to immediately messaging every single player in the game individually. Sending out conflicting information really helps find out who's talking to whom exceedingly quickly. It will be exhausting to keep up with though, and give diminishing returns, so from now on I'll be predominantly using the main thread. Apologies to the people I wasn't online to reply to, but I will respond to any new messages I receive.
Reads
kate Super duper town. What she said about being scum the last two games and not wanting to play scum tracks for her. Everything she's said about the discards is extremely true and good and true. Thilbert Thilbert reminds me of past games with them. I think they're town and will be very irritated if they get voted out immediately again for not vibing with enough players D1. I'm still getting non-committal good vibes.
I've had really bad vibes from you. There was your initial vote on Silver that very quickly got moved off again - almost like a mafia trying to associate with a buddy but not for long enough to get them wagoned. I also thing their read on me is entirely unjustified and is the lowest of low hanging fruit. This whole meta of voting based on discards: a) incentivices people to make weird choices in setups like these (I've seen it multiple times where players of either alignment will make decisions solely to make the game more challenging for them) ii) does the mafia's job of targeting power roles
5) goes against your own claim of wanting to be vanilla townie this game Plus I don't like your reads list.
Yelyab you make me concerned. Are you pocketing me? Everything you've said is entirely within your playstyle regardless of alignment. I have nothing on you; I just rolled my xdy and you got unlucky. Weird how many people are jumping on it already. I'd rather pressure Daisy right now.
VOTE: Daisy - gurl, why you acting cray-cray?
I'd like to remind people that this early in the game we're very unlikely to get great scumreads. It's far more useful to get good townreads. Based on interactions here and in private messages I have some townreads and some people I'm prepared to trust for the time being. I haven't given an exhaustive reads list because not everyone has been noteworthy. I can elaborate on any player on request but assume varying flavours of neutrality towards everyone not mentioned here.
|
|
|
Post by Nick G on Aug 3, 2021 14:59:11 GMT
I think the read on Kate is perfectly valid as i don't believe for a second you would discard SK, inherently one of the more fun roles in the game. The only reason i can see for such a discard was a strong Mafia role or some kinda of other fun Neutral role. As for safe reads i don't feel its possible to really grasp a surefast townie read on anyone on D1 in games without info from the next day so i honestly have no real good reads. So i'm just probing into the discard i am most suspicious and surprised of. Completely aside from Kate's personal meta, there are several reasons to discard Serial Killer, particularly in this setup. - In general, playing Serial Killer means you have to work on both the deception and deduction sides of the game, along with having to survive to achieve your win condition, making it one of the hardest roles to win as. (In this setup, the only role that I think is more difficult to win as is the Nobody.)
- Serial Killers are specifically disadvantaged in this setup, because they don't have immunity to Cops. (And the Town have no reason to trust any Neutral role in the deck, as each Neutral role is either anti-Town, or has the potential to become anti-Town later in the game.) With 3 Cops and an FBI Agent in the deck, there was a good chance of an SK-detective investigative role, and possibly more than one.
- Add in a potential Tracker, Watcher or Mafia Strongman, and the deck is potentially stacked against the Serial Killer. (The deck is even more stacked against Serial Killer A than against Serial Killer B, because a Seer would be able to break a Vigilante fakeclaim by Serial Killer A but not by Serial Killer B.)
- Yes, it is a chaotic role with useful abilities, but the abilities aren't exactly "interesting" if that makes sense. You don't get additional information, you don't get to interfere with other people's actions (aside from killing people under the order of operations), you don't have any buddies (Lovers, Masons, Mafia teammates), etc.
As for the Jester - while getting out of the game early isn't necessarily fun, people also tend to like to try and win if they can, and Jester typically has a decent chance of winning (although a little less so when the Last Laugh skill makes Town more concerned about getting a Jester). Jester is arguably more fun, because there's more flexibility in the playstyle and you don't have to work so much in terms of deception.
|
|
koast
Vanilla Town
Posts: 10
|
Post by koast on Aug 3, 2021 15:29:34 GMT
I put the SK read on the side for now I’m fine with leaving Kate alone for now.
|
|
|
Post by Zaiden on Aug 3, 2021 16:16:42 GMT
I can see the way in which this setup could have been bastard. Looking at the discards, imagine if there was scum majority in this game. The real mafia would have been the Lovers/Jester, with villagers being lambs to the slaughter. That would have been pretty funny to see. But I'm glad we're playing closer to standard. That's definitely within my comfort zone. I won't add anything substantial atm because I'm pretty tired at the moment and haven't properly read through this thread. Don't think I will have too much time tomorrow either, but I will look to sink my teeth in about Wednesday. One person has come forward to ask me for my discard. I will tell my discard to the next two people who message me. It's rally not worth thinking about how the game could be bastard. For all I know this could be a Truman Show game where I'm the only real player, it could literally be anything, so there's no point trying to play around it. It seems like a natural conclusion to make. If you look at the discards, half the players in this game being scum was a very feasible outcome. If my maths isn't shoddy, there had to be some players who received two scum cards.
|
|
|
Post by Zaiden on Aug 3, 2021 16:26:06 GMT
Can someone TL;DR when Distributive has been lying? Has generally read more town than scum to me. Although our private messages have been fairly limited owing to me being generally AFK from real life and this game by extension.
|
|
|
Post by Daisy on Aug 3, 2021 16:32:53 GMT
Can someone TL;DR when Distributive has been lying? Has generally read more town than scum to me. Although our private messages have been fairly limited owing to me being generally AFK from real life and this game by extension. Lied about rolling a D13 to determine who she was messaging, when in fact she was messaging everyone. Also lied about which card she discarded in those DMs to a few people I've been talking to.
|
|
|
Post by Daisy on Aug 3, 2021 16:33:59 GMT
Oh yea and lied to me about which chats they were in as well after I asked
|
|
|
Post by Zaiden on Aug 3, 2021 16:45:20 GMT
Two days is insanity. Didn't realise the day phase was that short. I probably shouldn't have signed up considering my work schedule during the weekdays is pretty intense and I just want to chill on weekends. But here's my reads so far based on a bit of reading today: Kate: Hard town. I can believe that Kate wouldn't be interested in the exciting possibility of playing serial killer. Unless they've massively improved their scum play, I'm not seeing any characteristic discomfort/uneasiness/flails from scum Kate. So I'm happy to peg her as townie. Eluned - Townie vibes. Seemed like the earliest person to give the setup thought. So early they were probably thinking about it before D1 began.
Aegis - Townie vibes. Clearly put thought and was the first to try and bring up rationale on why certain discards seem clearer and others less clearcut.
NickG - Townie lean. I'm happy to take Yelyab's words on the credibility of Nick G in this game. So far they've come at me from an angle of good faith and have posited some interesting ideas about the game. For me, this read will also evolve in relation to how my read on Yelyab evolves as the game goes on. Yelyab - Neutral. Has some measured takes on the game which I agree with. I do like how they haven't jumped the gun on anything. But I do believe some of the observations are fairly generic for someone of Yelyab's calibre and he could be capable of more. Staying neutral also means bridges don't get burnt and wait outs can happen for something concrete to blend into a potential wagon.
Daisy - Neutral. Has had a positive impact on the game, and informed me the tldr of the Distributive situation. But I also believe with the distributive situation, there's potential for bad faith actors to capitalise on it in the event distributive is town. And it would be hard to read motives when there's a reason that's seemingly so concrete.
Tom: . PM'd him about something for clarification.
Silver: Neutral. Severely disagree with their reads list. But from correspondences so far doesn't seem... bad? Distributive - Scum lean. Privately DM'd everyone to ascertain stuff. Seems relatively high profile/high effort for scum? Since I'd imagine scum would be trying to keep their head low while figuring out what could be a safe claim or something this game. Although this confusion play could be an attempt to facilitate that. My gut tells me evil Distributive would keep a lower profile and try to sit back while letting others get thrown under the bus - as opposed to standing up for Koast. Is trying to figure out who's felt townie/scummy from the get go based off limited information available to us. For me not a priority yeet. Koast: Hard scum. I get a sense Koast was trying to Koast in the early game but seemed caught out by Distributive's random vote and pressure. I can't tell if inexperienced player flailing or if scum flailing or if both. Will need more posts to read into but I would be happy to vote them off.
For me other haven't really spoken enough or engaged with the game substantively enough to comment upon: Ol, Sorazodia, Kratos. As highlighted by people, the cop and seer were discarded. I feel inclined to agree with Nick's theory on why some of these power roles were discarded. These ones do seem to make no sense - unless the Cop/Seer wanted to play scum or was tempted by a Joker/Ace wildcard proposition. I think anyone who discarded cop is unlikely to be pro-town rn. Jester - I can understand. If you win, it's because everyone else played like idiots. If you lose, it's because everyone didn't play like idiots. In essence it's a role that lacks agency. Godfather - Really strong desire to play town, or tempted by a third party proposition. Or gambled on cop getting discarded in this setup - which would have made the godfather another mafia goon. More 50/50 to me than Cop/Seer discards. Mafia Hider - Since bus drivers don't exist, there's only one other claim that can be realistically made (Town Hider). I can see why someone would throw the card because of not wanting to be limited in fake claims. And to end: Vote: Koast
|
|
|
Post by Zaiden on Aug 3, 2021 16:58:51 GMT
My plan for tomorrow? Well, I was kind of hoping I'd have had the time to properly read through the thread and write out something tomorrow afternoon. 9-5 is a thing and I have other obligations for this evening. I will probably have to think about what role action I need to submit. And I will also need to hover this thread so I can keep my vote and reads up to date depending on developments.
As for town plans going forwards, opinionated discourse is good. More of it leading into the deadline so we have more to look back on when the first person has flipped. I encourage people to have stronger opinions and share them. A strong neutral opinion is fine too if you strongly express a neutral stance on somebody. I just want less non-committal reads that can be easily backtracked on.
I will revoke my Aegis town lean assertion now I've checked the spoiler and say that it's pretty bad from my perspective for Aegis to assume I'm nonchalantly approaching the game by choice or something. I literally said I'm busy with work and other obligations. There's a reason why Hopkirk, TheCouncil, Hectic, etc haven't elected to play this game and in retrospect, I'd assume that's tied to the fact they're also working 9-5 with obligations. And Aegis still went ahead and tried to nail something on me for it. Believe me, I'd love to contribute more if time would permit me. I was so shattered I napped from 5pm-8pm dinner yesterday. Ergo I think it's bad faith to try and use that as a reason against me.
|
|
|
Post by Daisy on Aug 3, 2021 17:21:03 GMT
Koast: Hard scum. I get a sense Koast was trying to Koast in the early game but seemed caught out by Distributive's random vote and pressure. I can't tell if inexperienced player flailing or if scum flailing or if both. Will need more posts to read into but I would be happy to vote them off.
wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=FlailingGotta hit em with the classic :3 But nah I'm happy with Zaiden's reads, only thing I disagree with is Kate so high, as she's more of a neutral to me, but I understand p much all of the thought processes he's laid out. V nice.
|
|
|
Post by Thilbert on Aug 3, 2021 17:24:04 GMT
I would disagree and say that it helps town find mafia too because faking natural read progression is tricky but that was the most comprehensive one I have planned, future reads will probably just have things/the people that stick out to me
Ngl I think you're wasting an information source if you're not paying attention to read progression as well as vote progression, but each person hunts their own way
While read progression is hard to fake and looking at read progression is important, ordered reads list aren’t the only way to do so. Have players give town read, then leans, neutral, scum leans and then scum reads means that there is still the level of uncertainty instead of mafia being about to know exactly how people are feeling. I really feel like it's splitting hairs to say that there's a significant difference between ranking people on scumminess and stating Town reads - Town Leans - Neutral - Mafia Leans - Mafia Reads lol
|
|
|
Post by elunedj on Aug 3, 2021 17:33:01 GMT
.. Elunedj Honestly, you seem pretty towny to me. I haven't gotten any negative pings, other than a burning internal thought that you are playing the long game. Town one shot governor does hurt your case a bit, and the justification is because I believe that role can be used on other players, so your case that you were ok with dying soon doesn't fully support your decision. Despite that, however, your actions seem to have good intent so far. So paranoia is all I am really using in argument against your case. The PM habits seem pretty good also. .. Firstly, nice list it was useful info. Next, the it could be used on other players argument: a) I would never do this early game as I would not trust anyone that much so the only early game benefit would be self protection which I don't value too hugely as it would neither town confirm me nor do anything spectacular for town imo
2) late game saving others falls under my previous reasons for not being a massive fan of govener: knowing me I could waste the save on a mafia and that would be very town detrimental (especially late game), the role gets progressively more swing-y and my alternative felt like a more stable benefit to town/just better ... elunedj , to respond to your @ on page 5 - ye I do have a town read on Thilbert for today largely because I liked their early page 1 behaviour of fake claiming & generally feeling like they were scum-hunting (e.g. iirc there was something where they thought they'd caught someone out but had misread? I respect the transparency). Also vibes from their discard choice.... I think I have understood this differently to my knowledge Thilbert claimed their discard was queen of hearts and then went on a thing about how if it wasn't true then it would have been really risky for them to claim that discard (misunderstanding what cards we viewed at the beginning). Idk but I don't really recall them hunting other players particularly other than being sus of the people who discarded town power roles for discarding town power roles. Your town read makes me feel I have missed something, you have talked privately or one of us misremembers the thing Thilbert didn't understand in the beginning. Feels oddly strong of an opinion I think it's time to put pressure on people to have more options with multiple votes and I'm significantly more happy with Zaiden (although I haven't fully read through their post yet), although I'd be relatively chill with a Koast vote for now I'll go with: VOTE: Silver you nolonger need a finger of sus and can just have a vote :>
Questions
silver I would like some reads/vibes (doesn't have to be everyone) not a list but [person]: [thought on person] sort of format would be nice. Also I voted Thilbert prior to Zaiden so your form is incorrect sorazodia anything more from you would be nice. Has your read on thilberts mistake changed much, idk but I get vibes that Ol is town reading thilbert for that and you're scum reading them for that and I don't really understand either end. Why is their mistake feeling like a large read flag to you? Note on distributive: slipped off voting Koast just as it was going full tilt as a wagon with not much of a reason why not to to pressure Koast anymore
Nick G lots of chatting but more mech talk than not feels, you voted koast to hear the why behind the SK discard feels, now you've heard it do you have an update on your read?
|
|
|
Post by Thilbert on Aug 3, 2021 17:38:10 GMT
elunedj , to respond to your @ on page 5 - ye I do have a town read on Thilbert for today largely because I liked their early page 1 behaviour of fake claiming & generally feeling like they were scum-hunting (e.g. iirc there was something where they thought they'd caught someone out but had misread? I respect the transparency). Also vibes from their discard choice. Wait, when did I fake claim?
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 3, 2021 17:47:35 GMT
I will revoke my Aegis town lean assertion now I've checked the spoiler and say that it's pretty bad from my perspective for Aegis to assume I'm nonchalantly approaching the game by choice or something. I literally said I'm busy with work and other obligations. There's a reason why Hopkirk, TheCouncil, Hectic, etc haven't elected to play this game and in retrospect, I'd assume that's tied to the fact they're also working 9-5 with obligations. And Aegis still went ahead and tried to nail something on me for it. Believe me, I'd love to contribute more if time would permit me. I was so shattered I napped from 5pm-8pm dinner yesterday. Ergo I think it's bad faith to try and use that as a reason against me. I don't understand how I can't make the claim I made against you. Firstly, I didn't pin on any player whether or not they are active (see my spoiler on players like yourself and Koast, it just means when I do see something it means more as players that post more are more likely to cause confusions from time to time). If I argued that Im sus of you because you didn't post, then that's fine. But my claim was that you gave info on your role to some players, rather than just posting it publicly. Its a thing I analysed to potentially be slip or choice that may indicate anti-town alignment, and I stand by that. The problem with you saying about your schedule is I can't in good faith use that to say that you avoid any and all negative reads for what you did. Case in point, I believe your discard is still not public. While I completely trust you have a schedule where you can't type much, I can judge and read what you do send. You could actually have been influenced by what I thought you were, and as long as that is possible it stands as a sceptical possibility at least. Lastly, as I said before I was being harsh and as such I took people's actions in their worst variation. Everyone can argue "but that isn't me" but quite frankly I don't know that for certain do I? I am analysing what is on this forum, cold as stone, once it is placed on this forum, since I cant certainly say otherwise.
|
|
Aegis
Cult Leader
Posts: 685
|
Post by Aegis on Aug 3, 2021 17:52:54 GMT
.. Elunedj Honestly, you seem pretty towny to me. I haven't gotten any negative pings, other than a burning internal thought that you are playing the long game. Town one shot governor does hurt your case a bit, and the justification is because I believe that role can be used on other players, so your case that you were ok with dying soon doesn't fully support your decision. Despite that, however, your actions seem to have good intent so far. So paranoia is all I am really using in argument against your case. The PM habits seem pretty good also. .. Firstly, nice list it was useful info. Next, the it could be used on other players argument: a) I would never do this early game as I would not trust anyone that much so the only early game benefit would be self protection which I don't value too hugely as it would neither town confirm me nor do anything spectacular for town imo
2) late game saving others falls under my previous reasons for not being a massive fan of govener: knowing me I could waste the save on a mafia and that would be very town detrimental (especially late game), the role gets progressively more swing-y and my alternative felt like a more stable benefit to town/just better Like that you used "a" and "2" XD. I completely understand this reasoning, and I thought you would say this, but I just wanted to make sure. I obviously can't fully trust this, as its your reasoning and as such you could have any and I would be none the wiser, but for now I accept that to you this role is essentially only as powerful and useful as vanillager (+ a bit more, as it actually has a tad of utility). It doesn't really change the read anyway, just good you had the response ready.
|
|
|
Post by silver on Aug 3, 2021 17:56:56 GMT
VOTE: Silver you nolonger need a finger of sus and can just have a vote :>
Questions
silver I would like some reads/vibes (doesn't have to be everyone) not a list but [person]: [thought on person] sort of format would be nice. Also I voted Thilbert prior to Zaiden so your form is incorrect (Ah Ill have a look back in the chat to see where you voted Thilbert) A few of my reads so far: (In no particular order) ThilbertI thought he made a pretty good bounce back from the initial pressure, however i would really like someone to follow up with his cop offer. This is mostly because after that cop post he hasn't said anything too out there and has seemingly been playing it pretty safe. I'm slightly worried about a mafia gamble of "cop check me then!", so we don't cop check him, and he turns out mafia. Aka, you're not town yet so dont play safe XD ZaidenThis is where things may get controversial... The biggest contribution they made prior to the read spew is math based and i do that a ton as mafia (and seeing as i dont really play much with Zaiden thats what imma go off lol). Now for the read spew... Within that post they said: Straight disagree. While yes, I defended her in therms of the discard reads, I do not think that Kate has been particularly towny this game (see Kate reads for more details). Umm i hate to break it to you but this is completely NAI for Aegis. Stating the logic of discards could be done as either alignment (as can math calculations) and i would like to make people aware that Aegis has almost definitely told a few white lies so far... Putting him this high on your town reads is rather dangerous. No way you have a HARD SCUM read this early XD Especially when you havent had much time for the forum. Seems kinda performative. kateFocusing on your discard doesn't give me much to go on, and I dont get why people are developing reads on you due to it tbh. Id quite like to have a longer chat about reads if youre up for it? Aaaaannnnddddd thats all imma do otherwise this is too long
|
|
|
Post by kate on Aug 3, 2021 18:00:36 GMT
I'm up for it
|
|